Range Hood, Helogen Lights not lighting

Thread Starter

FLDS

Joined Dec 13, 2017
6
I have a range hood "Ancona" The helogen lights are not operating, I suspect the transformer maybe faulty. I have tried replacing the bulbs.
I am now deciding to replace it with LED lights G4 3v. My question is as follows based on the Circuit Diagram (attached)
1. Is the input to the transformer 110v, I now output of is 12v
2. I have a LED driver 110v to 12v. Can I use this driver instead of the transformer. (attached)
3. The transformer has 3 output wire (White, Yellow, Green) I assume white is negative, yellow is positive and green ground, is that right?
4. The LED driver has 4 wires a) 2 white as input, 110v, b) 2 wires, 1 Black & 1 Red which of these are positive and negative?
5. Will the heat of the range affect the LED Driver.

Would appreciate your reply
Thanks
FLDS
 

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wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,160
I have a range hood "Ancona" The helogen lights are not operating, I suspect the transformer maybe faulty. I have tried replacing the bulbs.
I am now deciding to replace it with LED lights G4 3v. My question is as follows based on the Circuit Diagram (attached)
1. Is the input to the transformer 110v, I now output of is 12v
2. I have a LED driver 110v to 12v. Can I use this driver instead of the transformer. (attached)
3. The transformer has 3 output wire (White, Yellow, Green) I assume white is negative, yellow is positive and green ground, is that right?
4. The LED driver has 4 wires a) 2 white as input, 110v, b) 2 wires, 1 Black & 1 Red which of these are positive and negative?
5. Will the heat of the range affect the LED Driver.

Would appreciate your reply
Thanks
FLDS
1. It’s most likely 12V AC, not DC.
2. It’s mandatory for the LEDs that you do not use the existing transformer, and that the driver you got is meant for the LEDs you want to use. LEDs require a controlled current and the voltage will vary to maintain that current. You cannot use a controlled voltage (unless it’s very precise and carefully adjusted).
3. Green is likely ground but you will likely see an AC voltage between the other two, which may as well be the same color.

Your documentation should address your questions about the LED driver. It’s almost certain that red is positive and black is negative. An inexpensive multimeter is a handy tool and could confirm this for you. I recommend getting one.
 

Thread Starter

FLDS

Joined Dec 13, 2017
6
1. It’s most likely 12V AC, not DC.
2. It’s mandatory for the LEDs that you do not use the existing transformer, and that the driver you got is meant for the LEDs you want to use. LEDs require a controlled current and the voltage will vary to maintain that current. You cannot use a controlled voltage (unless it’s very precise and carefully adjusted).
3. Green is likely ground but you will likely see an AC voltage between the other two, which may as well be the same color.

Your documentation should address your questions about the LED driver. It’s almost certain that red is positive and black is negative. An inexpensive multimeter is a handy tool and could confirm this for you. I recommend getting one.
Hi Wayneh,
Thanks for your reply and suggestion.

I was not going to use the transformer. I am replacing it with the LED driver.
one more question, I would like to by-pass the Processor Board (Control Board) and connect the Red & Black wire from the LED driver directly to the Red & Black wire of the Helogen bulbs (replacing with LED bulbs).
Thanks for your time and advise.
FLDS
 

ElectricSpidey

Joined Dec 2, 2017
2,011
I wouldn’t advise using LEDs or the driver with a stove, both devices don’t like heat.

It would probably be best to replace the transformer for your Halogen bulb with a factory replacement, or something rated for higher temps.
 

Thread Starter

FLDS

Joined Dec 13, 2017
6
I wouldn’t advise using LEDs or the driver with a stove, both devices don’t like heat.

It would probably be best to replace the transformer for your Halogen bulb with a factory replacement, or something rated for higher temps.
Thanks for your response.
Sure I will not. Thanks for your advise.
The factory one is very expensive. I tried online I could not find a transformer with 3 wire output. There are 2 wire output without the green wire, is it OK to use this type of transformer.

Thanks
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
12,443
Whatever you use, you'll need heat-proof cable to connect things up. Most adapters/transformers won't have that, so could be hazardous.
 

ElectricSpidey

Joined Dec 2, 2017
2,011
First I want to say that assuming that green lead is a ground and not a center tap is a really bad idea.

Also assuming it’s the transformer and not a faulty part in the unit, such as a diode is also a bad idea, you really need to test that transformer for output. (and to be sure that wire is a ground, and not a center tap)

But working under the assumption it is a ground……

Looking at that diagram, it looks like the ac from the transformer is converted into dc within the unit, and the ground is there to ground the transformer. (assuming the red and black means dc)

But…and this is a big but…there is no way to tell what is grounding what from that diagram, the unit may be grounding the transformer to provide shielding or safety, or the transformer may be providing a ground to that terminal at the unit.

You need to check whether the ground is connected to the transformer case or not, and if the transformer was isolated from the range itself.

But to answer the question…yes probably any 12 volt transformer with a proper wattage and heat rating will light the bulbs. If the original transformer had a shielding case then best to replace it with the same.

In the end if you replace the transformer and are still using the unit, you need to replace the ground. (if it is a ground)

If you do wish to bypass the entire system, I can provide a proper diagram for you to do it. But will need a few things, such as the voltage and wattage of the bulbs, and whether the red and black output from the unit is dc or ac.


EDIT: My gut is telling me…

Green and yellow = 12 volts and the white is a center tap, I have used many transformers with this color arrangement. Some have 2 green or 2 yellow but the white is normally a CT.

So please be sure, before you do anything.
 
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Thread Starter

FLDS

Joined Dec 13, 2017
6
Thank you Guys,
You all are so helpful and knowledgeable.
This is a good tutorial to understand and to be aware of safety.
The Transformer is operated independently, therefore, my guess was the transformer is faulty. I should have checked with the multi meter I was lazy.
I will check/test the transformer with a multi meter to find out if its DC/AC.

Yes, I would let you know if I need a diagram, after I open the hood and check it.

Attached are a few paras of the operating/installation manual.

Appreciate your replies and help.

FLDS
 

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ElectricSpidey

Joined Dec 2, 2017
2,011
Yea but the doc he just posted says that the bulbs have 3 settings, so ac to the bulbs is not likely.

FLDS you can’t test a transformer for ac/dc only to see if it is working. (the output a transformer like that is always ac, only converted to dc with external parts.
 

Thread Starter

FLDS

Joined Dec 13, 2017
6
Thanks for your quick reply.

Yes you are right, I could not check for AC/DC.
When I opened the transformer I seen a black burnt spot near the 2 red wires, where the 4 diodes (are they called diodes) are they are named as D1,D2,D3,&D4.(See photos With circles).
I suspect one or two of the diodes are blown.

One more thing I noticed is that the 3 wires WGY, White is COM, the green and yellow wire were soldered reverse according to the name on the board, it looks like the yellow wire is CT. What is CT?

I tried re-soldering, no success.

I may have to go with your new diagram. If possible let me know from where to buy the parts (Transformer) I have sent you the spec., which has all the details.

Thanks for your time.

FLDS
 

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ElectricSpidey

Joined Dec 2, 2017
2,011
In all honesty I didn’t expect the transformer to be an electronic power supply…

You can try to replace the diodes.

I see a transformer online that may do the job for under 20.00 US dollars, you may spend more trying to replace the entire system, and bypassing the control unit.

But quite frankly without knowing what is going on within that control unit and understanding why the outputs from there are red and black, I’m kinda at a loss.
 
Hi Wayneh,
Thanks for your reply and suggestion.

I was not going to use the transformer. I am replacing it with the LED driver.
one more question, I would like to by-pass the Processor Board (Control Board) and connect the Red & Black wire from the LED driver directly to the Red & Black wire of the Helogen bulbs (replacing with LED bulbs).
Thanks for your time and advise.
FLDS
Hi I am new to the forum as I was searching the same thing. My lights on my ancona hood range dont work either and was wanting to switch to an led driver and led bulbs. Were you able to get your led bulbs to work?

Thanks
 

lightpsycho

Joined Mar 21, 2018
18
Wow this is so funny. I just subscribed to this forum for exactly the same reason...I have the same range hood!!

You cannot bypass the processor board as it is what allows you to switch between lo and hi beams.

If you take a look at the diagram, looking close, you'll see that the transformer yellow wire is connected to a 12V terminal, and green to a 9.5V terminal...the only logical thing here is that 9.5V is used for lo-beam.

So...to quote myself, what I was proposing is:

Since there is no such thing as a 3-wire output LED driver (that I know of), in order to preserve hi and lo beam function (without jumping the 12V and 9.5V wires and having only hi-beam), could we take:

1-3x1W (output voltage DC 3-11V 300mA) driver hooked up to lo-beam 9.5V considering 2.85W = 9.5V x 0.3A

and a

4-7x1W (output voltage DC 12-25V 300mA) drive hooked up to hi-beam 12V considering the leds draw a total of 6W @ 12V

Both of their neutral wires would be hooked up to the neutral terminal on the processor board side? And inputs hooked where they belong on the 120V AC side of course.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,160
Wow this is so funny. I just subscribed to this forum for exactly the same reason...I have the same range hood!!

You cannot bypass the processor board as it is what allows you to switch between lo and hi beams.

If you take a look at the diagram, looking close, you'll see that the transformer yellow wire is connected to a 12V terminal, and green to a 9.5V terminal...the only logical thing here is that 9.5V is used for lo-beam.

So...to quote myself, what I was proposing is:

Since there is no such thing as a 3-wire output LED driver (that I know of), in order to preserve hi and lo beam function (without jumping the 12V and 9.5V wires and having only hi-beam), could we take:

1-3x1W (output voltage DC 3-11V 300mA) driver hooked up to lo-beam 9.5V considering 2.85W = 9.5V x 0.3A

and a

4-7x1W (output voltage DC 12-25V 300mA) drive hooked up to hi-beam 12V considering the leds draw a total of 6W @ 12V

Both of their neutral wires would be hooked up to the neutral terminal on the processor board side? And inputs hooked where they belong on the 120V AC side of course.
I think I follow but not well enough to comment. A schematic would be helpful.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,160
I think what you need is a PWM controller for the LEDs rated to the appropriate output current for whatever LEDs you choose. This would give you full range dimming.

Depending on the controller you choose, you may be able to simply supply AC mains power to it. Or you could supply power to the controller using the “high” setting. Either setting might work if the controller can accept the lower voltage.

Most of the LED drivers I’ve seen accept either line AC voltage or need DC at lower voltage. If you don’t use mains, you may need to add a bridge rectifier (perhaps also a filter cap) to one of the lower voltage lines to convert it to DC.
 

lightpsycho

Joined Mar 21, 2018
18
I think what you need is a PWM controller for the LEDs rated to the appropriate output current for whatever LEDs you choose. This would give you full range dimming.

Depending on the controller you choose, you may be able to simply supply AC mains power to it. Or you could supply power to the controller using the “high” setting. Either setting might work if the controller can accept the lower voltage.

Most of the LED drivers I’ve seen accept either line AC voltage or need DC at lower voltage. If you don’t use mains, you may need to add a bridge rectifier (perhaps also a filter cap) to one of the lower voltage lines to convert it to DC.
Thanks for the reply.

I'm not really familiar with PWM controllers, but thing is, I don't need/can't use full range dimming as the hood just has a single "click button" to control the lighting (i.e 1st click = high, 2nd click = low, 3rd click = off). This is managed by the processor board, which switches between the 12v and 9.5V input voltages provided by the current transformer that's in there. Since I want to keep things as simple as possible while still preserving both light intensities (and button!), I don't think a PWM will do the trick here, as I want to keep as much of the original design as possible.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,160
Thanks for the reply.

I'm not really familiar with PWM controllers, but thing is, I don't need/can't use full range dimming as the hood just has a single "click button" to control the lighting (i.e 1st click = high, 2nd click = low, 3rd click = off). This is managed by the processor board, which switches between the 12v and 9.5V input voltages provided by the current transformer that's in there. Since I want to keep things as simple as possible while still preserving both light intensities (and button!), I don't think a PWM will do the trick here, as I want to keep as much of the original design as possible.
Well OK, why not just replace the halogen bulbs then? If it's not the bulbs, find the fault and fix it.
 
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