Ram pickup truck engine manufacturer fined $1.6 billion

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
Some people just don't learn.
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/cummins-truck-emissions-justice-department-fine/
COMPANY FINED NEARLY $2 BILLION OVER ILLEGAL MODIFICATIONS ON PICKUP TRUCKS:

According to the Justice Department, Cummins rigged about 1 million Ram pickup trucks to cheat emissions tests so they looked cleaner than they actually are, reported The New York Times. As a result, 630,000 model year 2013-2019 Ram engines and 330,000 model year 2019-2023 Ram engines have secretly been releasing nitrogen oxide, which forms smog.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/unit...el-engine-manufacturer-cummins-inc-agrees-pay
 
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geekoftheweek

Joined Oct 6, 2013
1,238
I love how they used picture of a truck that was been further modified illegally for the article. NOx doesn't make dark smoke... fuel that has not been burned makes smoke.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
Yup, obviously they didn't learn from the similar fiasco at VW.
In the old WV thread, it was said they all cheated because none could really make it work (good emissions and consumers expected engine performance ) without cheating.

The real kicker is VW was busted in 2015 but Cummins rigged the engines starting in 2013. So what they learned was to keep their software cheat hidden better.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
But I do! Now I know another website to avoid.

Thanks!
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/unit...el-engine-manufacturer-cummins-inc-agrees-pay
As in prior cases against other manufacturers, EPA discovered defeat devices in Cummins engines used in RAM pickup trucks through testing at the agency’s National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory. That testing of RAM trucks was done as follow-up on a 2015 EPA warning to manufacturers that the agency planned to conduct special testing to identify defeat devices using driving cycles and conditions that were non-standard, but still reflected normal vehicle operation and use.
I know, a website with an biased agenda, explaining the facts to their advantage , shocking!

We all know who's really to blame, just like VW did.
1708273169085.png

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/volkswagen-pulls-2016-diesel-lineup-from-us-market/
VW says rogue engineers, not executives, responsible for emissions scandal
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
I don't buy that. In every company, responsibility for the behaviour and practices of the company goes all the way to the top.
Management in trouble.
You say what the lawyers tell you to buy time for the next lie.

Yes, nobody bought that lame excuse from VW.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
30,922
I see it as management protecting themselves and trying to pass the blame on someone else. That's common human behaviour.
When everything goes right, you pat yourself on the back. When things go bad, you kick someone else's butt.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
We rogue engineers won't take this.
1708275928105.png
“Emissions? No, this cigar has a catalytic converter.”
Rogues have come a long way from the fifties and sixties, where they were marginalised into cheeky but loveable roles on the fringes of the economy; think George Cole as Arthur Daley.

You now find rogues occupying important roles in industry, finance and the public sector. But there is still “much to do” say leading rogues, as they continue to be blamed for many of societies ills.

From institutional racism in the police, to systematic greed in the banking sector, the finger is often pointed at a rogue.

And now VW, who find themselves engulfed by emissions test fixing scandals, are suggesting that rogues working as engineers at VW are to blame.

“We just do what they allow us to do,” writes an anonymous rogue in a book that promises to ” lift the lid ” on rogue culture, breaking their strict code of silence.

“Or we just do what everyone else is doing…but with a naughty glint in our eye, and a cheeky smile.”

However rogue community leaders have distanced themselves from the new book, dismissing it as the work of a rogue rogue.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,355
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/unit...el-engine-manufacturer-cummins-inc-agrees-pay


I know, a website with an biased agenda, explaining the facts to their advantage , shocking!

We all know who's really to blame, just like VW did.
View attachment 315549

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/volkswagen-pulls-2016-diesel-lineup-from-us-market/
VW says rogue engineers, not executives, responsible for emissions scandal
Just for the record: I oppose laws which are impossible to obey.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
Just for the record: I oppose laws which are impossible to obey.
What's even worse IMO, cheating to keep the impossible to obey law on the books. Instead of all of the diesel engine makers lying and cheating and pretending to obey, they should have said, we can't do this, no more engines and let the citizens decide if the law needs to be changed.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
I think the law was not impossible to obey, it's just that it would have cost money.
I really don't know but it's telling to me that VW, Porsche, Cummins and a few others were all doing much the same thing, at the same time to meet emission standards. I remember some in the US car industry were buying the VW cars and stripping the engine to the last bolt to see what magic they were using to pass the tests because their guys said it was impossible.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27395706/porsche-diesel-cheating-fine/
Porsche to Pay a $600 Million Fine for Diesel Cheating

https://www.businessinsider.com/gm-suspected-vw-was-cheating-on-diesel-emissions-2016-2
GM suspected VW was cheating on diesel emissions
According to Forbes' David Kiley, Lutz told WJR-AM that General Motors studied VW's diesel technology during his time as the company's product czar from 2001-2009, but could not work out how the German automakers managed to pass California's stringent emissions standards.

“Our people told me that they had studied the Volkswagen products and that they could not get the hardware to perform the same way to satisfy California’s emissions standards,” Lutz told radio host Jason Vines.
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...ent-news/gm-defeats-emissions-fraud-lawsuits/
GM defeats emissions fraud lawsuits
  • A Michigan federal judge dismantled two class action lawsuits alleging General Motors (GM) misleadingly represented the emissions of its Chevy Cruze, Silverado and Sierra vehicles.
  • On July 12, U.S. District Judge Thomas L. Ludington granted GM’s motions for summary judgment in cases relating to emissions for 2011-2016 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD or 3500HD trucks and GMC Sierra 2500HD or 3500HD trucks fitted with the Duramax diesel engine.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,355
And what laws discussed in this thread do you think fall into that category?
Good point!

I have no idea if the "laws" in question are actual legislative actions, formulated as bills, passed by congress, and signed by the president, or unconstitutional arbitrary administrative rules made up by unaccountable, unelected bureaucrats.

In either case, I'm opposed, but even more so in the latter.
 
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Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,406
Good point!

I have no idea if the "laws" in question are actual legislative actions, formulated as bills, passed by congress, and signed by the president, or unconstitutional administrative rules made up by unaccountable, unelected bureaucrats.

In either case, I'm opposed, but even more so in the case of the latter.
I'm also opposed to pie in the sky rules, laws and regulations that have little basis in reality.

The EV requirement is a good example. The public is saying, NO with their money.

https://gazette.com/news/wex/shocki...cle_21f954a6-1418-5434-becd-5ad62ab12f54.html
The administration is reportedly planning to relax its limits on tailpipe emissions, in an election-year concession to labor unions and automakers, sources told the New York Times on Saturday.

Instead of forcing automakers to continue producing more and more EVs to hit near-term targets, the administration will relax the rules, giving manufacturers until after 2030 to boost their sales significantly, the sources said. The final version of the rule is expected to be announced in the spring.

The Environmental Protection Agency originally announced a new rule last year that would require nearly 70% of new car and truck sales to have no tailpipe emissions by 2032. But critics claim the sudden shift would have devastated the U.S. auto industry.
Yes, must be an election year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/climate/biden-epa-auto-emissions.html
Biden Administration Is Said to Slow Early Stage of Shift to Electric Cars
 
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