Again, please forgive my ignorance—it’s easier to ask than it is to get my aged brain to wrap around the theory...
I am stuck in the old days of stage lighting with 500/1000 watt PAR64 can lighting. After being out of it for over 25 years I find the LED thing has virtually killed my old lights. So...
My new idea: example 20” LED light bar (for vehicles) and affixing a frame to them and inserting color gels for a solid color, in keeping with the old ways. This example specs are 126 watts, 10,500 LX, 10-30vdc, using 42 3watt LEDs. (I think the old PAR bulb 500watt output 3500 LX)
I know there are units designed for this already with DMX controls and such, but I’m just interested in updating my old way to the point of LED lights for a very simple flood/wash thing...
In my scheme I’m thinking two units—1 per stage side, for Red, 2 for blue, etc. Or may make it even simpler with just a wash of a subdued slightly colored mix using only two units.
This example unit is 25 bucks and free shipping. Store bought actual
Stage units are at least 50 and up...
With that, can a converter 110 to 12vdc handle a few of these?
Thanks again for considering my musings...

 

You can buy 110V to 12V power supplies that can supply many amps. Here is just one example...
https://www.amazon.com/MEAN-WELL-SE-600-12-Supply-Single/dp/B01MT3X5F2
And, some old PC power supplies may do what you want.
When selecting the LEDs, make sure you have those designed to run straight off a power supply, like that for a vehicle, so they include the current limiting circuitry. Otherwise, just straight LEDs will need that designed in. LEDs need to have the current limited.
A PWM controller can be used to dim them too.

 

OK, you seem to be asking about variable power supply set up for lighting control. First, the spectrum out from "white"leds is not uniform, and so getting the exact color may not happen. But colored arrays are available that include the control module so that you can set the color and brightness. LED brightness does not change the same way that incandescent does and so you will need to watch it to believe/understand it. So my suggestion is do some research and look a bit farther and do it before spending money on anything. Stuff is so far different and changing quick enough that. You need to do more learning before doing the spending.

 

I’d be far more concerned about gaining experience with LED lighting than trying to replicate procedures that are 100s of years old. The technology is drastically different. For example, gelling white LEDs is unlikely to produce the expected effect. The color of a PAR64 is very different than a white LED light. Since the advantage of an LED instrument is to be able to produce all the colors needed on stage w/o gelling, using a gel is likely to fail.

BTW, I was the technical director of a theater in the Boston area.

 

You can buy 110V to 12V power supplies that can supply many amps. Here is just one example...
https://www.amazon.com/MEAN-WELL-SE-600-12-Supply-Single/dp/B01MT3X5F2
And, some old PC power supplies may do what you want.
When selecting the LEDs, make sure you have those designed to run straight off a power supply, like that for a vehicle, so they include the current limiting circuitry. Otherwise, just straight LEDs will need that designed in. LEDs need to have the current limited.
A PWM controller can be used to dim them too.

Thanks much. Yes what I intend is to try the units made to attach to off-road vehicles...

 

I saw it somewhere on AAC, white LEDs derive the color from a phosphor excited from something like Uv, so it might be best to use the LED color desired.

 

I’d be far more concerned about gaining experience with LED lighting than trying to replicate procedures that are 100s of years old. The technology is drastically different. For example, gelling white LEDs is unlikely to produce the expected effect. The color of a PAR64 is very different than a white LED light. Since the advantage of an LED instrument is to be able to produce all the colors needed on stage w/o gelling, using a gel is likely to fail.

BTW, I was the technical director of a theater in the Boston area.

And thanks for your kind input as well. I’ll keep that in mind too, but I am the stubborn type and if it’s not costly, I usually at least try an idea and see if I can “manipulate” it a little so maybe I can achieve some sort of success... This situation is definitely not “theater type” venues but very small, local venues. In fact a few months back I used my old aluminum 64s...4 a side suspended from ceiling trusses...a lot of work rigging and then those heavy dimmer packs. THEN the circuits blowing lol. We eventually made it all work but a lot of work. It did look great though...

 

but I’m just interested in updating my old way to the point of LED lights for a very simple flood/wash thing...

With that in mind it sounds like you are looking for a lighting industry LED Retrofit for your old system. This allows using existing dimming and control systems. What you may wish to do is get in touch with a lighting manufacturer and speak with an applications engineer. I have not seen gels used in years. A Google of "stage lighting LED retrofit" should get you going. You may also wish to give this a read. The link will point out some things you may or may not have already thought about.

Ron

 

Putting a color filter over a white LED is sort of like using a buggy whip in your car to coax it to go faster.

To get color light from LEDs you use RGB LEDs and adjust their relatve brightness to get any color you want.

And, as already pointed out, white LEDs are not full spectrum and filters will not have the same effect as they do with incandescents.

Bob

 

I’d be far more concerned about gaining experience with LED lighting than trying to replicate procedures that are 100s of years old. The technology is drastically different. For example, gelling white LEDs is unlikely to produce the expected effect. The color of a PAR64 is very different than a white LED light. Since the advantage of an LED instrument is to be able to produce all the colors needed on stage w/o gelling, using a gel is likely to fail.

BTW, I was the technical director of a theater in the Boston area.

That is what I was intending to convey in my response, along with the suggestion that a lot of educational material is available, and certainly needed. Things certainly are different today. BUT I still have, and use, an old spotlight left over from the Alibi club in New Orleans. I got it in 1965, the place had been closed for years at that time.

 

Forget all about gels , they had to be used in the old days because the only light source was white , they absorb 90% of the light and allow one colour to pass ... 10% efficient !!

leds are not only more efficient than old style lights , but if you want red , say , then the led will produce only that colour so it saves even more waste and excess heat.

 

On the net I see that changing color bars are available but prices are high. Seems that current draw is around 8 to 10 A @12V / bar.

 

On the net I see that changing color bars are available but prices are high. Seems that current draw is around 8 to 10 A @12V / bar.

There are a;ways places with high prices, because there are usually a few who will pay those prices. But there are also cheaper copies around, they may be harder to find, though. Some of the independent lighting shops that carry a wide variety of lights may be good choices. And sometimes obsolete or even failed hardware is available, sometimes free and other times just for the scrap price.
And 10 amps at 12 volts is only 120 watts, perhaps the equivalent of 1200 to 1500 watts incandescent lights. The advantage today is that with switching mode power supplies there are none of those big and hot rheostats that occasionally started fires in theaters. And some of the shops actually do carry LED bulb style things in various colors. They are not cheap but they can be found. That would allow you to substitute LED "bulbs" with Edison bases in existing light bars just by screwing them in.

 

With that in mind it sounds like you are looking for a lighting industry LED Retrofit for your old system. This allows using existing dimming and control systems. What you may wish to do is get in touch with a lighting manufacturer and speak with an applications engineer. I have not seen gels used in years. A Google of "stage lighting LED retrofit" should get you going. You may also wish to give this a read. The link will point out some things you may or may not have already thought about.

Ron

Hey Ron...yes I had seen a couple of places that do the retrofit thing and YOW! Expensive! I figured real quick just better to buy the new units—much cheaper LOL

 

Putting a color filter over a white LED is sort of like using a buggy whip in your car to coax it to go faster.

To get color light from LEDs you use RGB LEDs and adjust their relatve brightness to get any color you want.

And, as already pointed out, white LEDs are not full spectrum and filters will not have the same effect as they do with incandescents.

Bob

Thanks Bob...I guess in my hardheadedness it is hard to fathom how that occurs, but I believe you guys—still, you just know I’ll have to see it done one day to make my eyes “see” it, and then exclaim “I’ll be danged—they were sure right!”

 

Thanks for all of the usual great minds coming together to post input/education that help me with my “what if?” ideas. Years ago it seemed to be much easier coming up with alternatives to many things, and resulted in many great DIY successes. It seems today we’ve gotten so far ahead with technology that we’re splitting hairs with any DIY stuff, sadly. Friend of mine has a brother that is an excellent woodcrafter and has done many detailed projects that separate him as a true artist. However, now he has a laser engraver, and most of his ideas are being churned out with a computer and machine...
BTW, I have run across some of the RGB Bar Lights and are looking at that more closely. I could still make use of the white LED ones as “blinders” (aimed from stage to audience) that are used in big shows, or as “rain lights” (usually mounted back of stage, centered, and in an arc shape to spread beams toward front of stage...usually look best when some fog effect is introduced on stage)
Again, thanks, and keep the ideas coming.

 

Wait until you have a scene that appears at different times of the day. You’ll only need one set of instruments and no gels to go from yellow, to lt. blue, to sunlight, to orange and red to dark blue. If it used to take you two instruments to light the space, that’s all you need for all of the above color effects.

No more bulky cabinets of gels. Dial up the exact color you want on the control panel.

 

Relamping classic cyc lights with LEDs might be practical. Keeping the RGB glass on them, and taking advantage of the LEDs lower heat and power consumption would be a win.

You could still light a scrim or cyc in the same way, so your board setup would stay the same.

 

Hey Ron...yes I had seen a couple of places that do the retrofit thing and YOW! Expensive! I figured real quick just better to buy the new units—much cheaper LOL

Oh yeah, I know a few people in the industry. Large universities and theaters have no problem throwing down $500,000 to $1,000,000 in sound and lighting. Some big bucks.

Ron

 

I could still make use of the white LED ones as “blinders” (aimed from stage to audience) that are used in big shows, or as “rain lights” (usually mounted back of stage, centered, and in an arc shape to spread beams toward front of stage...usually look best when some fog effect is introduced on stage)

I have noticed this. In the old days when everyone smoked, you could rely on a smokey atmosphere that showed up the beams of lights. These days, you have to use fog or smoke generators on stage. The air is just too clean now!

BTW: I have made a couple of RGB led colour bars out of aluminium channel, red green and blue LED strips and a Chinese DMX to RGB pulse-width-output boards. All sourced from ebay sellers. Worked, but not quite bright enough.