That should work very well. I had not been aware that the control and the LEDs were separated. The set like that which I saw the control was a "wart" at the end of the string of LEDs, molded on plastic.

Well basically its two flat 4 conductors coming out of the box going to two led strips each. I would have to splice into each 4con, the problem is the wires are not colour coded or labelled so i would have to test with my meter to fine the 12v. But as for my other question can i splice into the negative i ran from my battery and use it for the timer relays coil? I ask bc obviously the 12v from the rgb controler is going to the relays + end of the coil so i would assume i can just pull a negative from the battery to the - Side of the coil and it wouldnt matter right?

 

Well basically its two flat 4 conductors coming out of the box going to two led strips each. I would have to splice into each 4con, the problem is the wires are not colour coded or labelled so i would have to test with my meter to fine the 12v. But as for my other question can i splice into the negative i ran from my battery and use it for the timer relays coil? I ask bc obviously the 12v from the rgb controler is going to the relays + end of the coil so i would assume i can just pull a negative from the battery to the - Side of the coil and it wouldnt matter right?

I suggest powering the delay relay in parallel with the controller instead of using the 12 volts from the controller. The reason is that the controller may not be able to handle more current that the relay will require. So it will mean a bit more wiring BUT it will avoid any chance of a problem. In addition, it will be protected by the same fuse as the LED system. The relay will start it's time delay when you switch on the power, perhaps 3 seconds later it will connect the LED string. OR you may need to adjust the delay a bit longer.

 

I suggest powering the delay relay in parallel with the controller instead of using the 12 volts from the controller. The reason is that the controller may not be able to handle more current that the relay will require. So it will mean a bit more wiring BUT it will avoid any chance of a problem. In addition, it will be protected by the same fuse as the LED system. The relay will start it's time delay when you switch on the power, perhaps 3 seconds later it will connect the LED string. OR you may need to adjust the delay a bit longer.

Well the flash actually happens in 0.75 seconds of hitting the switch and then stays on do u think the time delay relay will be sensitive enough to only delay the time about 1 second. 1 second delay should suppress the glitch im just not sure if those relays actually work for so little time

 

Well the flash actually happens in 0.75 seconds of hitting the switch and then stays on do u think the time delay relay will be sensitive enough to only delay the time about 1 second. 1 second delay should suppress the glitch im just not sure if those relays actually work for so little time

Time delay relays are available with a wide range of setting spans, seconds to minutes. So if you can find one with a full-scale time of two to five seconds that should work. If you can only get one with a longer setting range it may be more of a challenge to set. But a lot of timing relays can be opened, and you could install a smaller timing capacitor. There should not be a lot of parts so it should not be too hard to see which one is the timing cap.

 

There are 4 wires coming out of the controller one postive 12v and R G B to the leds. I was thinking i take the 12v from there use it to feed the coil of the time delay relay, that way the initial pulse the module gives to the leds will be broken by the time delay relay and then sent to my leds. Will that work?

Yes that would work quite well. It is what I was suggesting way back in post #9 but using a switch instead of a relay. Either switch or relay does the same thing, interrupts to + voltage going to the LED strips. You can tap the LED power anywhere, it simply feeds directly thru the box to the strip. The other 3 lines drive the LEDs by grounding them

In other news I finally located my LED light box. I hid it behind me at my work desk, not in the shed where I did not find it to my surprise. I checked it out and I have replicated the flashy thing where you get a brief burst of light even when set to off (they remember the last setting even without power). Interesting that the two I opened are different, one may even be using BJT transistors but the other has FETs.

I will be trying the fix I have in mind one day this week at my job where I have some better tools to use.

 

Yes that would work quite well. It is what I was suggesting way back in post #9 but using a switch instead of a relay. Either switch or relay does the same thing, interrupts to + voltage going to the LED strips. You can tap the LED power anywhere, it simply feeds directly thru the box to the strip. The other 3 lines drive the LEDs by grounding them

In other news I finally located my LED light box. I hid it behind me at my work desk, not in the shed where I did not find it to my surprise. I checked it out and I have replicated the flashy thing where you get a brief burst of light even when set to off (they remember the last setting even without power). Interesting that the two I opened are different, one may even be using BJT transistors but the other has FETs.

I will be trying the fix I have in mind one day this week at my job where I have some better tools to use.

Wow thanks sounds good. Well bc i have the led controller on a three position switch one with constant power and one with the NO on my relay, i cant use a switch i have to use a time delay relay i was even thinking of making my own time delay by wiring a capacitor to a relay in parrelle with my rgb controller. Im not sure if there are time delay relays that will have a .75 of second delay time so i was thinking this as an alternative

 

Something to consider.

Feature:

• There are 8 time range options, with a minimum of 0.1 seconds and a maximum of 1 hour.
• High current load (250V AC 10A or 30V DC 10A).
• Anti-reverse voltage input circuit, worry-free wiring.
• Modules can be triggered using the normally open type switch or a sensor.
• Signal input optocoupler isolation, anti-interference ability.
• With a delay regulating potentiometer, the regulation time will be longer.

 

OK, that could work, but it is not nearly the kind that I was thinking about. Those are not durable, they are hobby grade devices. P&B offers a cube type delay relay, delayed application after power applied. Adjust able delay until it operates. And a durable package.

 

OK, that could work, but it is not nearly the kind that I was thinking about. Those are not durable, they are hobby grade devices. P&B offers a cube type delay relay, delayed application after power applied. Adjust able delay until it operates. And a durable package.

Yes i was thinking of using a cube like relay as well considering it will be mounted in the kick panel of my truck. I have a couple 12v finder cube relays laying around i wonder if wiring a capacitor to the relay block will stop the glitch to instead of buying a timer relay? What do u think about a makeshift time delay relay? After all i only need a half second delay to stop the glitch

 

Something to consider.

Feature:

• There are 8 time range options, with a minimum of 0.1 seconds and a maximum of 1 hour.
• High current load (250V AC 10A or 30V DC 10A).
• Anti-reverse voltage input circuit, worry-free wiring.
• Modules can be triggered using the normally open type switch or a sensor.
• Signal input optocoupler isolation, anti-interference ability.
• With a delay regulating potentiometer, the regulation time will be longer.

Interesting. As i asked down below i was wondering if i can make my own somehow. I have a couple finder 12v relays laying around maybe i can put a capictor on the relay block or somthing like that after all i only need a half second delay to stop the glitch

 

That cute experimenter's circuit board would need to be stable mounted in a suitable enclosure for use in a vehicle. And probably that would not be a simple addition.
A cube style relay might work and experimenting could be done on a bench without much effort. Some of those relays might even have room for a capacitor inside the housing. Certainly you could try and see if an adequate delay with reasonably sized parts would be possible. First, you will need to learn what voltage it takes for the relay to operate reliably. Then you can pick the size of resistor that allows that voltage to operate the relay. Then you can experiment with capacitors to add some delay. The side-benefit being that you will develop some insight about RC time constants.

 

So I took two units into work today where I can use a nice microscope. Basically these have 2 chips, a 256 byte EEPROM and a micro controller (unmarked in both my samples) where the micro drives three SOT-23 MOSFETs to control three LED strings using PWM to set brightness.

Micro controllers typically set their pins as inputs at power on to keep them safe till they initialize via code. During this time the MOSFET inputs are basically floating which can cause a brief flash.

To prove this I added an 0805 SMD resistor gate to drain to each MOSFET.

Guess what? No more flashy thing!

I used 50.1K resistors but anything from say 25K to 250K should work just the same.

Here is an image of my device with the mod:



Sorry for the dim image.

One cheap source of these resistors.

 

So I took two units into work today where I can use a nice microscope. Basically these have 2 chips, a 256 byte EEPROM and a micro controller (unmarked in both my samples) where the micro drives three SOT-23 MOSFETs to control three LED strings using PWM to set brightness.

Micro controllers typically set their pins as inputs at power on to keep them safe till they initialize via code. During this time the MOSFET inputs are basically floating which can cause a brief flash.

To prove this I added an 0805 SMD resistor gate to drain to each MOSFET.

Guess what? No more flashy thing!

I used 50.1K resistors but anything from say 25K to 250K should work just the same.

Here is an image of my device with the mod:

View attachment 208712

Sorry for the dim image.

One cheap source of these resistors.

wow thanks thats great. I do have some resistors laying around from an alarm panel, id have to check if there the right ones. Im thinking going this route or what would be less likely for me to mess up, making a sort of timer relay. I was thinking of putting a capacitor on my 12v finder relay i have lieing around. Would just have to figure out the best way to do it

 

Yes, that fix should be adequate, and it makes sense.

 

That cute experimenter's circuit board would need to be stable mounted in a suitable enclosure for use in a vehicle. And probably that would not be a simple addition.
A cube style relay might work and experimenting could be done on a bench without much effort. Some of those relays might even have room for a capacitor inside the housing. Certainly you could try and see if an adequate delay with reasonably sized parts would be possible. First, you will need to learn what voltage it takes for the relay to operate reliably. Then you can pick the size of resistor that allows that voltage to operate the relay. Then you can experiment with capacitors to add some delay. The side-benefit being that you will develop some insight about RC time constants.

Well the relay i have is a finder 12v relay the coil takes 12v and draws abour 0.1 amps. If i were to add a capacitor before my relays coil to delay the coil from triggering, how would i do this. Im not to familiar with capacitor wiring, would all i have to do is place a capacitor in line on the + going to my coil? Also what type and size of capacitor do u suggest?

 

Well the relay i have is a finder 12v relay the coil takes 12v and draws abour 0.1 amps. If i were to add a capacitor before my relays coil to delay the coil from triggering, how would i do this. Im not to familiar with capacitor wiring, would all i have to do is place a capacitor in line on the + going to my coil? Also what type and size of capacitor do u suggest?

Well, 12V at .1A makes the coil 120 ohms. Let's assume that 8 volts is enough to turn this thing on (relays have a pick up voltage lower that the rated voltage). That means we can put a 60 ohm resistor in series to give a capacitor something to delay it's charge with.

Plugging these numbers into LT Spice shows that to get about a 1 second delay you would need a 10,000 uF capacitor. That is a cylinder about 1 1/2" tall and .75" wide. Plus a nice 60 ohm resistor with half or a full watt rating.

This will take some experimenting to find a combo that works, this is just a starting point.

I do NOT recommend this approach.



Note R1 is representing the relay coil.

 

Well, 12V at .1A makes the coil 120 ohms. Let's assume that 8 volts is enough to turn this thing on (relays have a pick up voltage lower that the rated voltage). That means we can put a 60 ohm resistor in series to give a capacitor something to delay it's charge with.

Plugging these numbers into LT Spice shows that to get about a 1 second delay you would need a 10,000 uF capacitor. That is a cylinder about 1 1/2" tall and .75" wide. Plus a nice 60 ohm resistor with half or a full watt rating.

This will take some experimenting to find a combo that works, this is just a starting point.

I do NOT recommend this approach.

View attachment 208794

Note R1 is representing the relay coil.

Your right it may be better to do what u did to the mofets i will just have to step my solder game up. Im assume u just soldered them to the board right?

 

Yep. The solder on the board is probably lead free so do it like this:

Make a nice dab of fresh solder on one pin of the FET. Using tweezers place the resistor between the pads and reflow that joint. Let it cool then do the other. Repeat 2 more times.

Dollar store reading glasses can make the tiny stuff visible.

 

If you would prefer for your solder connections to be reliable you would avoid using lead free solder. Just caution folks to avoid eating the soldered components. Lead-free solder has been shown to result in less reliable connections.