Just sent Norgren a request for the Norgren 341115-12VDC Solenoid Valve specifications.

 

Just coil V & current.
What power is available ?

 

Hello,

Is this the valve used?
http://store.norgren.com/us/en/detail/351115-12vdc/kip-series-3-valve-1-8-npt-ports-2-way-nc-12vdc
There is also a datasheet on the page.

The only difference between the 34 and 35 is the size of the port.

Bertus

 

Maybe some of these links from Google will give you some help - https://www.google.com/search?q=propane+bird+gun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=how+to+build+a+propane+cannon

 

If 120 V AC is available, a neon sign transformer throws a nice hot 1/4 in spark. Spark timing by 555 & solid state relay. Might it be possible to leave gas valves open for complete series & only control firing pulses ??
Pulse rate would control size of gas charge. After a shot and as soon as pressure in barrel fell below fuel gas pressure, check valve would allow for recharge.

 

I believe I must add more information for clarity and so that a complete understanding of what I am looking for is more aparent.

Please see attached files. What I need is the sequencer schematic if available.

in addition, here is a list of the known components on the system diagram.

1-It is powered by a 12v DC battery.
2-The valves we are using are Part # 341115-12VDC on the 40 mm AA
3-A simple push button momentary switch mounted on the handle to trigger the operation (one shot or continuous operation)
4-We use a standard automotive coil like the AC Delco U505 or the Emgo 24-7512
5-For the spark plug we use a Champion DJ7Y 14 mm or a 10 mm NGK CM-6 could be used for tight spaces.

On our 40 mm guns, for a LOUD boom, the fill rate is 1 second and the coil is fired 20 ms later. The fill rate would have to be adjustable to allow for a faster fire rate if needed on our smaller 20 mm guns.

 

I believe I must add more information for clarity and so that a complete understanding of what I am looking for is more aparent.

Please see attached files. What I need is the sequencer schematic if available.

in addition, here is a list of the known components on the system diagram.

1-It is powered by a 12v DC battery.
2-The valves we are using are Part # 341115-12VDC on the 40 mm AA
3-A simple push button momentary switch mounted on the handle to trigger the operation (one shot or continuous operation)
4-We use a standard automotive coil like the AC Delco U505 or the Emgo 24-7512
5-For the spark plug we use a Champion DJ7Y 14 mm or a 10 mm NGK CM-6 could be used for tight spaces.

On our 40 mm guns, for a LOUD boom, the fill rate is 1 second and the coil is fired 20 ms later. The fill rate would have to be adjustable to allow for a faster fire rate if needed on our smaller 20 mm guns.




View attachment 97281 View attachment 97283

I'm pretty sure we can come up with some circuits to do it, but there are still a few unknowns I didn't think about.
Maybe most important is how long the valves are open. I suppose this could be done experimentally, but might be dangerous.
I'll start something out over the next day or two for a critique by others.
Oops, just saw it in your post above. 1 second fill maximum.

 

Sure you don't want to use a microprocessor? The coding for what you need is simple... And a small Arduino is easy to learn and not expensive ($7.00 for Adafruits Arduino Trinket or $10 for the Arduino Pro Mini). You need one input (Trigger) and two outputs (solenoid valves and spark coil).

The timing would all be taken care of in code. You can change the delays, etc... without having to change the circuit. Just change a line in the code.

What I don't know is what is required in the triggering circuits. I'd use relays or an optoisolator circuit to isolate the spark coil and solenoids from the microprocessor.

If nothing else, perhaps this will inspire a proposed circuit.

#define solenoidsPin  4
#define sparkcoilPin  5
#define inputPin  6

const int fillRate = 1000;
const int fireDelay = 20;
const int coilDelay = 10;
const int debounceDelay=30;

void setup() {
  // put your setup code here, to run once:
  pinMode(solenoidsPin, OUTPUT);
  digitalWrite(solenoidsPin, LOW);
  pinMode(sparkcoilPin, OUTPUT);
  digitalWrite(sparkcoilPin, LOW);
  pinMode(inputPin, INPUT_PULLUP);

}

void loop() {
  // put your main code here, to run repeatedly:
  boolean Trigger = false;
  int inputValue = HIGH;

  Trigger=false;
  while (!Trigger) {
    inputValue = digitalRead(inputPin);
    if (inputValue = HIGH) delay(debounceDelay);
    if (digitalRead(inputPin) == HIGH) Trigger = true;
  }

  // Trigger pressed
  digitalWrite(solenoidsPin,HIGH);
  delay (fillRate);
  digitalWrite(solenoidsPin,HIGH);

  delay(fireDelay);

  digitalWrite(sparkcoilPin,HIGH);
  delay(coilDelay);
  digitalWrite(sparkcoilPin,LOW);
}

 

Here is an incomplete sketch for thought. Missing; driver for valves, startup resets, arrow thru 1m R Q2-7 ?.
Q1 selector for number of shots per cycle. Q2 valve timing & firing rate. Q3 dwell time & spark.
If mixing time is required, add another 555 between Q2 7 Q3.

 

Thank you for your help. I think I can help with the attached timing chart.

 

Thank you for your help. I think I can help with the attached timing chart.View attachment 97306

Always another question.
Things are pretty easy, but I want to make sure about the trigger.
My current thinking is that once a cycle starts to let it complete normally rather than try to stop it someplace in the middle when the trigger is released. Is that okay? What that means is if the cool off delay is set to 1 second and the fill time to 1 second there might be a shot 2 seconds after the trigger is released.
The same is true of the start of a trigger. If we want to make sure the cool time is guaranteed we would start with that delay. That means the first shot would take a couple of seconds between the trigger and the boom. I understand the delay between shots will probably be shorter, but it seems like you mentioned making it adjustable.
I'll go down this path. We can always change it.

 

Hello ronv, THANK YOU

Yes, I agree with your thinking. It should start with a cycle and not end until that cycle or the next cycle is complete.

I am not sure how long the cool time should be between cycles? I guess that would depend on the physical characteristics of the chamber and barrel? I wouild think a 1/4 of a second would do but your suggestion to make it adjustable as well is a good place to start. Now about the start of the trigger, as you mentioned, if you insure that the end of the cool cycle is always completed, do you think the initial delay is necessary?



And Hello djsfantasi,

I would sure like to head in the direction of your suggestion for using a Arduino. It sounds like fun. If I were just doing this for myself, no problem. Now picture yourself on a 70 year old ship deck with no external power. You are setting up a system with NO electrical/computer background, the only thing you know is that you can adjust the gas pressures and the rate of fire with a screw driver. These are the the types of individuals that set up these guns for the re-inactments now, and in the future when I am long gone, and we have to design for.

 

Thanks for your reply. I better understand the environment.

My last word...

Your reply stimulates my imagination. A microprocessor could adjust the firing rates with a screwdriver and be self-contained so no knowledge of computers would be necessary except for the initial construction.

 

OH!!! One more thing. I was looking into the Coil On Plug (COP) that is used in the "newer" automotive ignition systems. This might be a great replacement for the old type coil that is currently used in the fire simulators? Does anyone have any information on them? I was "Googling" it and found that the three wire COP might have some type of transistor driver internal that is used as a trigger? That sure would simplify that driver interface.

 

Thanks for your reply. I better understand the environment.

My last word...

Your reply stimulates my imagination. A microprocessor could adjust the firing rates with a screwdriver and be self-contained so no knowledge of computers would be necessary except for the initial construction.

Plese don't let it be your LAST word! Once I get something going for the "crew". I would love to pursue your suggestion, for myself, just to get familiar with that system and see what I can do. It sounds like fun.

 

Ok, it can be fun.

 

Always another question.
Things are pretty easy, but I want to make sure about the trigger.
My current thinking is that once a cycle starts to let it complete normally rather than try to stop it someplace in the middle when the trigger is released. Is that okay? What that means is if the cool off delay is set to 1 second and the fill time to 1 second there might be a shot 2 seconds after the trigger is released.
The same is true of the start of a trigger. If we want to make sure the cool time is guaranteed we would start with that delay. That means the first shot would take a couple of seconds between the trigger and the boom. I understand the delay between shots will probably be shorter, but it seems like you mentioned making it adjustable.
I'll go down this path. We can always change it.

THANK YOU SO MUCH! It looks like you have a real handle on my needs! You make it sound so simple.

 

@jgrupczy
Don't run out and buy parts, but give this a look.
The smaller one shows the timing, the big one easier to read.
I also attached the simulation file for people to play with.

 

@jgrupczy
Don't run out and buy parts, but give this a look.
The smaller one shows the timing, the big one easier to read.
I also attached the simulation file for people to play with.

YOU DO GOOD WORK! But, please, I have a quick question. It looks like you open the valves at the same time you initiate the cool time. This would allow gases to enter the chamber before it had time to cool down. I believe we need to wait the full length of the cool down time before we allow the valves to open again. Am I wrong about the timing?

 

View attachment 97414

YOU DO GOOD WORK! But, please, I have a quick question. It looks like you open the valves at the same time you initiate the cool time. This would allow gases to enter the chamber before it had time to cool down. I believe we need to wait the full length of the cool down time before we allow the valves to open again. Am I wrong about the timing?

Good eye! Would you believe me if I said it was a test?
That one is fixable by removing the inverter at U8.
There is one more I think that doesn't show and that is if there is another trigger the fill can start while it is still in a cycle.