USA and France should have been supporting Assad from the beginning instead of trying to take him out of power,this is the same mistake they made in Irak,and what happened,a can of warms,they did more bad then good,there are far more terrorists now then before,and if USA/France continues with same politics soon Europe will be finished,look at the Germans ISIS is not bothering them and Germany is getting richer on the account of the monetary crisis, they sucking the blood of the other European countries,
Another thing no control of European countries borders because of Shanghen treat, bullshit,the terrorist appreciate that,freedom my ass,if they have control on the boarders in every country in Europe,what that has to do with freedom of circulation,if they have police at the boarders like use to be, asking for identification as they do in the airports,i wonder if that is lack of freedom,as-holes.
Fanny is that the french police say they had one of the bomb suicide-rs that died referenced,if they knew this guy was doing some illegal why the police did not act,then again asholes.this is happening because of this damn libertarians politicians

 

Sorry if I'm interrupting this debauchery fest but, Are the French people generally disarmed by their government so the terrorists have a good chance that nobody in a crowd might shoot back at them?

Thanks #12. I had typed up almost the exact same reply in this thread but chose not to post it. I wanted to let the discussion continue on its path for a while before steering toward gun control. Trying to "be the bigger man" in pushing my agenda before the official body count is published unlike our fearless leader.

But now that the cat's out of the bag, yeah, WTF? People like this always have and always will exist. You don't have to understand why, and I don't recommend you even try to. All you need to understand is that it is so.

So, as the leader(s) of a developed nation, how can you in good conscience relegate your citizens to the position of "fish in a bucket?" Is your feeling of security in your public office so important as to offer up your own citizens to your enemies as unarmed cannon fodder?

A disarmed populace, a goldmine of soft target opportunity is almost as much a disgrace as the attacks themselves. Because the leaders knew (they had to) that it could and would happen, and they let it happen.

Now, turn that light on our own faces. Why so many school shootings? Because every school is a mini France. Let's not keep enforcing a policy that continues to reinforce itself yearly (or more frequently ) as being the polar opposite of a good idea. Let's not keep speeding down the road to untimely death just because we're too proud to admit we took a wrong turn

 

Really .... I'm sure you could lay all that out to us how that occurred. There have been terrorist groups against the U.S. for ages.

Terrorist true, but nothing on the level of ISIS. They came into power after the fall of Saddam, the military leaders of his army. So they actually have military training and command structure, not like al qaeda. Until the fall (by Cheney and W) of Saddam they only were attacking their own people.

 

So, as the leader(s) of a developed nation, how can you in good conscience...

Who and where are these leaders of developed nations with good consciences of which you speak?

 

One doesn't acquire a fire extinguisher so as to put out an expected fire.

Quite true... my "at the right moment" observation was made along the thought that there are some places I'd feel very nervous of being at knowing that most people would be armed. For instance, a rowdy bar where lots of alcohol was being served.
But to make my posture clearer on this matter: although I don't like firearms myself, I understand and even support those who want to have them as legitimate means of self-defense.

 

For instance, a rowdy bar where lots of alcohol was being served.

I'm nervous in rowdy bars regardless of the presence/absence of firearms. I tend to stay away from places that make me nervous.

 

I'm nervous in rowdy bars regardless of the presence/absence of firearms. I tend to stay away from places that make me nervous.

Oh...and in Florida, it is illegal to carry a firearm into an establishment that primarily serves liquor. Therefore, you can rest assured that the only ones carrying are either cops or bad guys. Everyone else is a victim-in-waiting.

 

Because the leaders knew (they had to) that it could and would happen, and they let it happen.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/br...ervices-knew-paris-attack-coming-month-prior/

 

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/br...ervices-knew-paris-attack-coming-month-prior/

I can also guarantee there will be a terrorist attack somewhere at sometime in the future. And that is without any intelligence.

Knowing something will happen, but not knowing where, when, how, and by whom, are two completely different things.

Law enforcement needs to be right every time. The terrorists? Only once.

Edit: I suppose the French government could have imposed an indefinite countrywide curfew a month ago, but the libs wouldn't have been happy with that, either.

 

I think ISIS will stay away from states like Texas, Arizona, and Florida, (plus several others), because in these states, some of the "soft targets" will shoot back. States like New York, Washington DC, and California better stock up on body bags. Although I would love to see ISIS try an attack at a rap concert in Compton, California. I think the Homies would give them a run for their money.

 

There's already been a high profile mass shooting in Arizona. A congress woman was injured and a federal judge was killed. I would't go getting too cocky about it.

 

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/br...ervices-knew-paris-attack-coming-month-prior/

I can also guarantee there will be a terrorist attack somewhere at sometime in the future. And that is without any intelligence.

Knowing something will happen, but not knowing where, when, how, and by whom, are two completely different things.

Exactly. Each time something like this happens, it always comes out that "someone knew about it and didn't stop it." The looney kid who shoots up the school; some credible person (school counselor, therapist, family doctor, parents, science teacher, etc.) had reason to believe he had a high risk of doing it. Terrorist attack, some government knew it would happen.

You can't lock up an unstable kid for maybe being about to shoot up a school. You can't (apparently) identify the members of a terrorist cell and extinguish them before they light up a concert hall with muzzle flash.

The police, the military, the government, can only ever react; they can not act preemptively. They cannot save us. All they can do is give us the freedom to save ourselves. And they (all of them, even in the gun-happy USA) seem very opposed to letting us have that freedom. Apparently it imposes on their ability to dominate us.

 

All they can do is give us the freedom to save ourselves.

I assert that our freedom is not theirs to give -- only to protect.

 

There's already been a high profile mass shooting in Arizona. A congress woman was injured and a federal judge was killed. I would't go getting too cocky about it.

Yep, and there was a guy there with a gun who almost shot the wrong guy because he had the shooters gun.
A granny gets the medal because she grabbed the shooters new clip.

 

Since we are at war, here is why we are in trouble:

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” Art of War

The problem is that ISIS and people they recruit are dedicated to their cause, whatever it may be. I do not believe that the leaders of ISIS are doing it for religious reasons, they are doing it to assert their power. They are however using Islam, and the divide within it, to achieve their goal.

If anyone thinks Islam is the only divisive religion, think of Ireland... the brutality of it comes from the culture of the area, it is tribal and is brutal. Harsh punishments come from trying to maintain peace in a highly divided area. Historically, europeans did not help bring peace and we still did not learn anything about the people.

Back to the quote - ISIS recruits young men who are coming from Europe and even US. So they know who they are fighting. They know their enemy. We do not. I also have a strong feeling that we do not know ourselves anymore either because years have been spent bending over to accomodate them.

 

There's already been a high profile mass shooting in Arizona. A congress woman was injured and a federal judge was killed. I would't go getting too cocky about it.

The Gabby Gifford's shooting.
One man tackled the shooter and got shot doing it. This allowed two other men to keep him down and disarm him. The shooting spree ended because people took the initiative. America is a mixed culture. Some states are are anti personal protection. Other state like Arizona, Texas, Florida..... are pro personal empowerment/protection.

An armed society is a polite society.

 

The 2011 shooting in AZ is detailed on this page.

Before the shooting, Loughner had two previous offenses, one of which was for drug possession.[77] He had become obsessed with Giffords,[78] and had previously met her at a "Congress on your Corner" event in a Tucson mall in August 2007.[79]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting#cite_note-WSJ_20110110-79

 

If anyone thinks Islam is the only divisive religion

Ideas, system of government, patriotic sentiments, or even the concept of family values, purity of race or way of life can and will be used to divide people by those with a thirst for power. And since we're all different, then this is a never ending story.
It has become fashionable to blame religion for every evil that happens in the world today, but that is simply not the case.

 

The Gabby Gifford's shooting.
One man tackled the shooter and got shot doing it. This allowed two other men to keep him down and disarm him. The shooting spree ended because people took the initiative.

After six were shot dead, and others wounded. And this was a lone, disturbed shooter who lost control of his clip while reloading. Not a coordinated terrorists attack.

Arizona, Texas and such probably wont' be attacked because there aren't considered high value targets by terrorists. Typically, symbols of US power are targeted.

 

An armed society is a polite society

If the society that you're talking about is one that has a culture of respect and responsibility for the keeping of arms, then I'm all with you on that assessment. But if they see arms as toys or tools to forcibly have their way on disagreements... well, let's say I don't think it would end well.
I think it's a matter of education and respect, and that normally manifests itself in the way one is raised by one's family.