Network Analyzer help/setup

Thread Starter

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
2,388
I have a VNA Nano that work well and all you need to know is on a half sheet of paper.
I need a slightly better test, so I borrowed an Agilent E5071C ENA Series Network Analyzer that has 147 pages of "how to" and tells me nothing.

I need to check the frequency response of a filter from 1mhz to 500mhz, using two ports. The E5071 is in the "mode" for test cable length. I can't see how to change modes. "Change to the test you want." How? "Turn on the channel you want to use." How? I don't even know what the name is for what I want.

I feel real stupid. Years ago, I built a VNA that works wonderfully. I cannot get a HP or the Agilent to work. Maybe this is the wrong machine!
Thanks
RonS.
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Thread Starter

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
2,388
Hi Dick,

I just deleted a long letter about manuals and human interfaces. I work with these people and I am limited to yelling at them once a week. It is Monday and I yelled twice already. I will say no more.

"Have you ever used one of these?"
"You don't really know what this thing does, do you?"
"Who added a power up password and did not tell anyone?"

The people that design these things should have to go out into the field and use them. Wait, I am one of those people.

RonS.
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
9,317
You must be trying to win them over with your kind and sensitive manner.

The one company in which I worked where the user interface was complicated enough to require a technical manual, the writer would sit down with the design engineer(s) then later give the engineer(s) a draft for comments.
 

tautech

Joined Oct 8, 2019
292
I have a VNA Nano that work well and all you need to know is on a half sheet of paper.
I need a slightly better test, so I borrowed an Agilent E5071C ENA Series Network Analyzer that has 147 pages of "how to" and tells me nothing.

I need to check the frequency response of a filter from 1mhz to 500mhz, using two ports.
It's very likely a 1 Milli Hertz to 500 Milli Hertz range is outside the capability of this analyzer.
The E5071 is in the "mode" for test cable length. I can't see how to change modes. "Change to the test you want." How? "Turn on the channel you want to use." How? I don't even know what the name is for what I want.
Filter response is measured a basic way, primarily frequency vs amplitude which is normally measured with a Mag Loss chart.

Ports, adapters, cables and fixtures need be for Calibrated first so their effect on any measurement nulled for an accurate result.
For a basic measurement a Through Calibration should be sufficient for a S21 Mag Loss measurement.

The instrument should have a Default setting which you should use to set everything back to default that should be factory setting or if this unit allows for it some previous User Default.
Measurement type should allow you to specify the measurement type you need and for a simple Through a S21 Mag Loss will be fine unless you need a S11 refection measurement.

Set the sweep width, the Stimulus level and Reference level and a Vertical Scale appropriate to the filter response and set it alight where you should get a good dip in the trace if it's a pass filter or significant stimulus attenuation once the design frequency is met.

However, this all depends if this instrument can operate in the Milli Hertz range.
 

Thread Starter

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
2,388
1 Milli Hertz to 500 Milli Hertz
Sorry MHZ.
should have a Default setting
It powers up with the last setting. It remembers what it was doing last time. That is a good idea, thank you, I might find a way to revert back to how it was when it left the factory.

I found a video where they always start out in a default mode and move to each test. I cannot see how to back out of the test it is doing. It is in a cable length mode where X=nS or Feet. Because that is a one port measurement the add port 2,3,4 button does not work. Most buttons do not work because it is setup and running. The button for S21 does not work in this mode.

Maybe tonight I can call Japan and find an engineer with a similar machine.
 

tautech

Joined Oct 8, 2019
292
BTW, it's MHz !

Some instruments have a Preset button that works like a Default however it can be configured to suit the user’s needs usually from within the System menu where also the Boot behavior can be specified, normally factory settings, user specific or in your case Last which is returning the DTF mode.

Last mode and settings are the wisest to boot with so an unfinished project can be completed som following time without the need to reconfigure the instrument.
Everything you do is part of a ‘measurement’ therefore you normally select a measurement type and then configure the instrument to suit your needs.

Then again, thoughts after my previous post I determined you can do this frequency response check with a spectrum analyser, an instrument somewhat simpler to use than a VNA where a Through between TG and RF In is Normalised at the test frequency/amplitude then the filter inserted for the final measurement and Markers added at points of interest.
 
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Thread Starter

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
2,388
Got some help! He does not know how he did it but it is working.
Turns out if you plug in a mouse and keyboard it is much better.
 

Thread Starter

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
2,388
But it's a touch screen instrument right ?
Most of the buttons don't function in most modes. My first analyzer had a CRT and only ran on buttons.
I though the instrument was too old for touch screen, but it works. That get you much more buttons and a menu tree. Wonderful. Many of the buttons are too small to hit with a finger. The mouse + keyboard helps with that.

Ten minutes after I got it working "Bill the 1# manual writer" came by with a manual for "testing shunt resistors" with pictures. :)(happy face)
Bill & I spent some time testing and he know how to test resistors. Neither of us know how to use this instrument. lol
 

Thread Starter

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
2,388
For those that followed along this far: What am I doing?

One of my many projects is to make high current high frequency shunt resistors. 100A to 4kA. I really need to measure at 200MHZ to 500Mhz. The fastest shunts I can get do not work well above 50 to 100Mhz. So I am making shunts.

This shunt is for 200A pulse current. I was hoping to get 300mhz out of it. This frequency sweep is 100khz to 1ghz, 5db/div. There is a +1db bump at 200Mhz which I can fix. There is a -3db dip at 750Mhz that I might fix at some expense. The hard run upward near 1ghz turns around and comes back to baseline. Above 1.5ghz it is unfixable.

Good day in the lab. RonS.
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tautech

Joined Oct 8, 2019
292
For those that followed along this far: What am I doing?
Mistyping units again !

Ref and stimulus level mismatch for sensible measurements.
Scale could be magnified too.
Span too wide.
Horizontal graticules set to Logarithmic when Linear divisions would be better suited.
 
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