and a 10 amp mini-breaker.

Exactly how loud is that beeper?

ak

 

Exactly how loud is that beeper?

ak

Why would a well assembled device plugged into an adequately protected device plugged into a well protected home mains outlet need a ten amp circuit breaker??? And a device like in the photo is by no means simple to implement. Use a 5 amp fuse in a small fuse holder to protect in case of a serious short circuit inside the package, which will need an actual repair, not a reset.

 

Exactly how loud is that beeper?

Didn't see anything saying how many decibels it is but if it's like the 9 volt one I put on my freezer as a "door open alarm" which is a whole lot like the one pictured - it should be quite loud. If not - I can return it and find one louder.

Why would a well assembled device plugged into an adequately protected device plugged into a well protected home mains outlet need a ten amp circuit breaker???

Why do I have 20 amp breakers in my breaker box with 12 gauge wiring connected to 15 amp duplex outlets? With a 10 amp breaker, 16 gauge wiring should be adequate to handle a short that would trip the breaker. I DO have in-line fuses I could use to protect the device. If the device were to short out even a 5 amp fuse would likely kill the device. The breaker is there to prevent a fire. And I have a suitable enclosure to house the whole thing, so no worry about setting the rug on fire.

 

As I was typing the package arrived. The alert works on 40VAC to 120VAC. When powered by 120 it's plenty loud to wake me up without startling me enough to swallow my teeth.

Got everything but the circuit breaker. It arrives tomorrow.

 

Didn't see anything saying how many decibels

Why do I have 20 amp breakers in my breaker box with 12 gauge wiring connected to 15 amp duplex outlets?

You missed the point of my incredibly pithy humor - Allowing 10 A is a lot of current for a dinky little beeper.

Also, there is a big difference between protecting a circuit with an unknown number of unknown loads, and protecting one with one very clearly defined and very small load.

A Sonalert has enough parts inside of it that it can fail with a non-dead-short low resistance, enough to try to suck down 5 A continuously. That's 600 W in a volume 1/4 of an equivalent light bulb; maybe not China Syndrome, but - h.o.t. A 10 A breaker gets you nothing. Consider replacing it with a 0.5 A inline fuse. I've got a load of them; I can throw a 5-pack in the mail.

ak

 

You missed the point of my incredibly pithy humor - Allowing 10 A is a lot of current for a dinky little beeper.

I get it now. But it was Bill who was asking why a 10 amp breaker. Again, the breaker is there to prevent forest fires. Or rug fires, or curtain fires, or bed linen fires. Didn't test how many amps the alert draws, but there's also a relay coil and a wireless receiver that plugs into 110VAC. So I don't quite know the load. I'm SURE it is no where near 10A. But now it can be expanded. Maybe even a flashing table light.

 

If the beeper you have is this:

https://www.ingramproducts.com/upload/mw-09-201-q.pdf

it draws 20 mA at 120 Vac. Add in the radio receiver and relay, you're still way below 1 A. Probably so even with a flasher added.

ak

 

My wife and I will care for a dear friend who is having back surgery and will have no one else to help her. She’ll stay with us and need home care for up to six months.

She needs our attention anytime, day or night. For day calls, we have handheld radios that can be kept on a charger. She can push a call button, and we’ll respond. But at night, the call signal may not wake us. We can sleep through thunderstorms.

I have a remote switch controlled by a FOB that turns on a single 120VAC outlet. I’m thinking of plugging in a power supply that flashes a car lamp, like a turn signal, but also has a sounding device that works on the same voltage. A car horn would be too rude, so I’m open to ideas.

Hi there,

You might want to be aware that not all IC chips are deemed OK for life support systems. This does not sound like a real life support system, but you may want to follow some guidelines anyway.

First is battery backup. If you use the AC power line for power, you should have a battery backup so it gets powered even if the AC goes out, even part way such as a brownout.
This also means that it would be easier to use a sound source that can run on DC not AC so when the battery takes over there's no problem running the bell.

Second is redundancy. You should really build two units and have them each work with a different power source or battery so they are completely separate. If one fails, and that is always a possibility, the other is there to take its place. If you really want to build a third unit that's even better, the Space Shuttle had seven computers not just one and they were used for redundancy so up to 3 computers could go bad and still get a reasonable decision out of the remaining 4.

 

MrAl those are some great suggestions.

This isn't life support, it's just a means of calling for assistance. There will be no life support whatsoever involved in her recovery. The main reason why she's with us is because her own daughter is reluctant to go to grandma's house because GM is extremely narcissistic and abusive. Maddy (patients name) has undergone surgeries before. When home within a day or so GM was demanding she get up and vacuum the floor every Thursday. Refuses to do ANYTHING for her daughter too. It's a really bad home life situation, so Maddy is staying with us. She only has to recover. And to allow us to help her. That's another issue, she doesn't want to put anyone out. But we'll get her there to where she can ask for help. Maddy won't need round the clock attention, but in the off chance that during the night time hours she needs to get up and go to the bathroom she can call for assistance.

Not only is this beeper going to be in service, there are also walkie talkies (for lack of a better description). Even further, there's a door bell button that she can ring. If I'm up stairs in the shop my doorbell will ring a distinct chime and I'll know it's Maddy wanting or needing something. BEYOND THAT - there's cell phones. So in terms of redundancy, there's 1) the alert, 2) walkie's, 3) door bell & 4) cell phones. IF there's a power failure I'll usually know it. If it occurs during the night time my cell phone is right by my bed. If she calls - I'll hear it. My wife or I will respond.

 

So after some careful thought into the functioning and wiring of this unit - this is what I came up with:

When the breaker is closed the receiver is powered and the relay stands ready with power on both commons. If the FOB is pressed the receiver will switch on. That will switch the relay on and power will loop back to the relay thus holding it on until the system is reset. Also, when the relay is active power will also flow to the Ingram (alert) and will continue to hold the alert on. IF the FOB is pressed a second time the alert will still remain on due to the relay being self latched. To reset the system all we need to do is de-energize the circuit breaker momentarily. I COULD add a SPST NC PB between the relay and the breaker, but that's just one more item to put into the circuit.

The reason why I don't want Maddy to be able to cancel the alarm is because if she pushed it - there's a reason. A need. So one of us will get up and check in on her. WE will be the only ones who can cancel the alarm. Hopefully this won't make her afraid to even use the alarm. She should not be getting up without assistance for a few weeks into her recovery. After that - she can probably take more care of herself. But she's damned sure not going to be having to do chores. She will have us, her cat and her computer. And her daughter and grand children can come visit her anytime (within reason) they like. And if the wife and I need to go out - one of the more responsible adults can stay with her until we get back. And if none of them are willing or able, we have a neighbor who's also a damned good friend, who will give us time to ourselves. She's met Maddy and they like each other. So it's not like strangers coming in to watch over her.

 

MrAl those are some great suggestions.

This isn't life support, it's just a means of calling for assistance. There will be no life support whatsoever involved in her recovery. The main reason why she's with us is because her own daughter is reluctant to go to grandma's house because GM is extremely narcissistic and abusive. Maddy (patients name) has undergone surgeries before. When home within a day or so GM was demanding she get up and vacuum the floor every Thursday. Refuses to do ANYTHING for her daughter too. It's a really bad home life situation, so Maddy is staying with us. She only has to recover. And to allow us to help her. That's another issue, she doesn't want to put anyone out. But we'll get her there to where she can ask for help. Maddy won't need round the clock attention, but in the off chance that during the night time hours she needs to get up and go to the bathroom she can call for assistance.

Not only is this beeper going to be in service, there are also walkie talkies (for lack of a better description). Even further, there's a door bell button that she can ring. If I'm up stairs in the shop my doorbell will ring a distinct chime and I'll know it's Maddy wanting or needing something. BEYOND THAT - there's cell phones. So in terms of redundancy, there's 1) the alert, 2) walkie's, 3) door bell & 4) cell phones. IF there's a power failure I'll usually know it. If it occurs during the night time my cell phone is right by my bed. If she calls - I'll hear it. My wife or I will respond.

Hi again,

Oh ok, well hope you make out ok with this.

Another suggestion might be a home intercom system. Some of them will have a beeper built right in. Just plug each unit into an AC outlet.
Another suggestion that might sound strange is the use of a bed pan for nighttime problems. They use that in hospitals all the time. They have all kinds of models for men and women, and I would recommend a type that has a closing top. Check out Amazon for ideas or another web site if you like. They even have models with legs. Not too expensive either.

 

Again MrAl some good suggestions. This one made me laugh:

Another suggestion that might sound strange is the use of a bed pan for nighttime problems.

Not bad. Not bad at all. I hate to be the guy who finds problems with the solution but she's bringing her cat with her. Her mother won't take care of the animal and it will be left to suffer, and probably die. That being said - albeit not germane to the subject - banging on a pot with a spoon will likely frighten the cat.

Speaking of cats - we have three of them. One is 13 years old, the other two will be 4 in May. My wife seems to think everything will be just fine. I don't share her optimism. Having another cat in the house will upset my three; and will mean the bedroom door will need to be kept closed at all times. Going in and out means having to be ready to rebuff my cats from going into a room they have traditionally loved sleeping in during the day and overnight. I think this is going to get rough. "Hopefully" Maddy's daughter will volunteer to take the cat to her home. After all, she IS an animal lover. A horse, two goats, nearly a dozen chickens and a dove that was injured, now living in a big cage. Don't think I've seen any fish in the house. And the cat has been an indoor cat. OH, WAIT A MINUTE - she has three big dogs. I don't think that will be happening. "(

 

The walkies are digital and have excellent range. I went half way down the street, some 75 yards or more distance and signal was strong and clear. PLUS, they can still be used while on the charger. So dead batteries are not a worry either. Going to test my doorbell with a unique ring to them. It's for my shop but nobody ever uses it.

[edit] Works nicely. Can ring my bell from all the way down stairs and across the yard. Line of sight is probably about 40 yards so I expected it to work. But testing is a way to guarantee success.

 

Don't think I've seen any fish in the house. And the cat has been an indoor cat.

That would explain the apparent lack of fish .

 

That would explain the apparent lack of fish .

LOVE it.

Although, I have a pond with goldfish. Only lost one fish to cats and I think it was one of my own who snagged it and pulled it out.

 

Don't think I've seen any fish in the house. And the cat has been an indoor cat.

That would explain the apparent lack of fish .

Guess I failed to separate the two comments. Her daughter doesn't have a fish tank. Unrelated to the daughter, Maddy's cat has been an indoor cat. {still laughing about the lack of fish comment]

 

Again MrAl some good suggestions. This one made me laugh:

Not bad. Not bad at all. I hate to be the guy who finds problems with the solution but she's bringing her cat with her. Her mother won't take care of the animal and it will be left to suffer, and probably die. That being said - albeit not germane to the subject - banging on a pot with a spoon will likely frighten the cat.

Speaking of cats - we have three of them. One is 13 years old, the other two will be 4 in May. My wife seems to think everything will be just fine. I don't share her optimism. Having another cat in the house will upset my three; and will mean the bedroom door will need to be kept closed at all times. Going in and out means having to be ready to rebuff my cats from going into a room they have traditionally loved sleeping in during the day and overnight. I think this is going to get rough. "Hopefully" Maddy's daughter will volunteer to take the cat to her home. After all, she IS an animal lover. A horse, two goats, nearly a dozen chickens and a dove that was injured, now living in a big cage. Don't think I've seen any fish in the house. And the cat has been an indoor cat. OH, WAIT A MINUTE - she has three big dogs. I don't think that will be happening. "(

Hi gain,

Find all the problems you can that's what makes things more interesting. A very wise old engineer once told me that if you get it right the first time you haven't learned anything.

I am afraid I do not yet understand the issue with the cat(s) though. Is she bringing the cat with her or not? Also, if she is or if there are other cats, why would anyone be banging on a pot?

 

Had not thought about that. Great suggestion. But I'd like something that continues to disturb me until I get up and shut it off. Otherwise she'll have to keep ringing the doorbell until someone responds. She's a great natured person who will suffer the fires of hell just to not disturb someone else. So I want her to push the button once and it activates a circuit that I (or my wife) have to deactivate it.

How about this or one of the other options at the bottom of the page. There is enough variety that I think you can find something suitable.

 

This one even has mode for alert until reset, as well as various sorts of alerts—and it ships from the US.

 

Maddie's going for back surgery. Nothing life threatening during or after surgery. Those pagers are nice but it doesn't seem necessary to have emergency pagers. Maybe in the years to come I might need one - but not now.