All this new stuff that I must learn I am looking for actually 2 things 1 is where to find help learning LTspice and taking what I have on schematic and making a board out of it. Never used any tools like this before. great but a steep learning curve to all of it.

 

I recommend thinking about your end state, what you imagine doing in the future. Do you want to produce a new PCB once a week, or once a year? Or just once?

A time-saving tool is only worth learning if the time you save far exceeds the time to learn it.

LTspice is useful to even a casual hobbyist like me despite its learning curve. Making tweaks and adjustments is a lot easier in software than on a breadboard, IMO. (You'll definitely find other opinions on that here.) It's a great learning tool for understanding how your choices of component values can affect output. And the next step is often the breadboard, because real circuits don't always perform as they do in simulation. You can certainly skip from paper to PCB but be prepared for failed builds.

For me, the next step after the breadboard has not been a custom PCB but rather a build on a perf-board. I used general drawing software (which I was already quite familiar with) to work out the precise layout "on paper". I've made a handful of devices this way. In my most recent project I made 5 identical perf-board builds and swore I'd never do that again. Sizing, stripping and soldering all the wires drove me nuts. So I started to learn about tools to produce a PCB file for production.

Software such as Eagle can do simulation (so I hear, I've never used it) and take you all the way from a schematic to a finished board layout. You'll find proponents of Eagle here, as well as KiCad and a few others. Output that board layout in the right file format and you can send it off to get your PCB made. People here can recommend a half dozen such shops. I didn't get very far on my learning curve before hitting some walls and bailing out. If I had a few projects in the hopper, I'd jump back in and do the work.

 

Well I'm going to be having to make a few over the next year or 2 something I am building will require by my count 5 boards. and those boards are going into a long term tool for my hobby and I would like to at least get my feet wet and learn some of the new tools. I'm an old paper and pencil guy that did a ton of math then built on protoboard and then having to make a circuit board was a much simpler process then.

 

...something I am building will require by my count 5 boards...

If that were all you were ever going to do, I'd say you're on the bubble. It'd be hard to justify learning Eagle just for that. But as I said, my last build of 5 boards had me vowing to never do that again "the hard way".

I can't really recommend Eagle because I haven't done much with it myself but I know a lot of folks here recommend it. I believe KiCad may be the leading alternative but there are others as well. It may take a little experimentation, combined with advice from the experts here, to find the one that suits you.

The topics of PCB design software and PCB fabrication shops are both recurring and popular here. A little searching will uncover a lot of collective wisdom.

 

KiCad is a steep learning curve and very specific. You have to know the exact component to use with all of its parameters which will be in a pick library. There are those here that use it. So LTSpice for modeling, breadboard for testing, maybe a perfboard for further testing, and then there is the old make your own board by etching copper clad or Manhattan style. If all goes well as intended, then using CAD to optimize the board layout and having a board house make a run of several or a one-off board. Even then and at any step along the way be ready to deal with errors...

 

My middle name is error. I am prepared to make errors I have and usually do build onto a protoboard to test parts of a circuit and then add them into the larger board I have. I am very limited in space for making etched boards here. I really do need to handle this project with the utmost care. It's being made to last me for years to come. tiny little desk I work at is at least L shaped and solder station at one end scope off to one side power supplies scattered in front of me signal generators meters and other test equipment under the top shelf. and then there is the components. tis a mess.

 

EasyEDA (standard edition), offered by JLCPCB, is indeed easy to use and it free. I recommend giving it a try.

It feeds into JLCPCB's pcb fabrication service seamlessly and into their extremely cost-effective assembly service if you'd like to have your boards assembled. But it generates all the files you need to have boards fabricated and assembled anywhere.

I could outline all the positive things about EasyEDA, but trying it is the best way to tell if you like it.

 

I see two quite different requirements here: Circuit design and PCB design. They are totally different in that PCB layout design requires an adequately functioning circuit prior to starting, while "circuit design" mostly requires an adequate set of functional requirements.

 

My choice has been Kicad for circuit & board design and PCBway for the end product,
PCBway are one of a few that offer cheap shipping alternatives.

 

PCBway are one of a few that offer cheap shipping alternatives.

JLC is offering cheap shipping again.

 

T

I see two quite different requirements here: Circuit design and PCB design. They are totally different in that PCB layout design requires an adequately functioning circuit prior to starting, while "circuit design" mostly requires an adequate set of functional requirements.

The board for the amplifier must be a different process in order to keep the parasitic inductances and Capacitance on the board to a minimum. There are only a couple of companies that handle this type of special board. And then every board is tested for parasitic influence in the board. And again tested for parasitics within the circuit. From what the smart people tell me they are really not looking forward to designing such an amplifier. They will handle it though it's not the first time they have been asked to do similar things.

 

Adequate PCB layout certainly would require quite a bit attention to trace spacing and width, and avoiding jamming parts too close. In addition, the signal voltages and circuit impedances on adjacent traces must be considered. But really, that just requires understanding the circuit operation. Allowing adequate spacing, and providing adequate trace width on higher current traces, is not quite "rocket science", BUT it certainly demands folowing quite a few "rules for PCB layout". The good news is that there is PCB design software available that can follow those rules and create quite good artwork and layouts. The bad news is that there is a fair learning curve to climb. At least that has been my experience. Just creating the schematic diagram for the autorouter required an entirely different set of commands than the CAD program I have been using for many years. THAT was a big pain!

 

T

The board for the amplifier must be a different process in order to keep the parasitic inductances and Capacitance on the board to a minimum. There are only a couple of companies that handle this type of special board. And then every board is tested for parasitic influence in the board. And again tested for parasitics within the circuit. From what the smart people tell me they are really not looking forward to designing such an amplifier. They will handle it though it's not the first time they have been asked to do similar things.

Whoa, designing for high frequency, which you appear to be doing?, is a whole different animal. I've never done it but know enough about it to know there are a lot of techniques that experts employ. You're going to need expert input.

You'll get better answers here from people that can help you, if you ask better questions. Don't expect people to guess what you're doing.

 

Fortunately it's not me that has to design it I am the guy that used to get to test it after it is built. I am not an engineer I am a physicist and don't know a whole lot about such things. but the smart engineer types do know a lot about such things. My job was at the back end of the design. I have been retired now for a couple of years but I still go in for visits whenever I get in town. My replacement now gets the fun job of probably destroying a few of the amplifiers during destructive testing. They need to know what the breakdown parameters are in order to do reliability tests. one of these things go in and they don't want them to die right after installation. The flashes of light are extremely short and very bright in a fluid filled container Kept pitch black. as far as the wavelength of light they emit that is my end of things. I need to feed into the amplifier these short light pulses in varying frequencies to be sure that the amplifier passes all that information through to the fiber lines that connect it to the computer. Since there are many many of these sensors in the room there are a number of lines that could contain data from the flash and they all have to be combined in the computer to give the physicists all the information and data they require to categorize the flash and the frequency of light that they emit in that flash from there they can work out the energy level of the particle in question. So these amps must be both reliable and not breakdown easily under normal use and maximum brightness that is expected and that was also my job once upon a time. replacing any of them is a very expensive proposition and something the company absolutely does not want.

 

EasyEDA (standard edition), offered by JLCPCB, is indeed easy to use and it free. I recommend giving it a try.

It feeds into JLCPCB's pcb fabrication service seamlessly and into their extremely cost-effective assembly service if you'd like to have your boards assembled. But it generates all the files you need to have boards fabricated and assembled anywhere.

I could outline all the positive things about EasyEDA, but trying it is the best way to tell if you like it.

Thank you I will give it a look. It would seem that any project I do now will require SMD parts to keep the size down to a minimum leaving the room in the case for the power supplies and 3 other projects that will also go into the case. It's going to take me several months to come up with something that will work for the ranges I want it to. Then I will be done with the boards and anything else I build will most likely be on a protoboard. The devices I want in the box is something no manufacturer would ever build to sell in one box and I am probably the only one that would buy it.