When someone posts a homework question, aside from moving the thread here whenever appropriate and explaining why that was done, I challenge everyone here to refrain from pointing out the obvious (that its homework) and just try to provide actual help with homework questions. This does not require providing an answer. For instance, if someone posts in homework, how do I solve 2x+4=12?, dont remind them its homework, dont tell them they need to try first (because obviously they dont know how), and dont give the answer, just TEACH THEM what to do and be done with it!!!!!!!!

 

Unfortunately, we get a lot of posts in this forum where the student, sometimes very explicitly, only wants someone to give them the answer outright. Many other times the do not realize (because they haven't read the Sticky) that they are supposed to show their best attempt to get as far as they could, first, instead of just posting the problem. We are NOT telling them they are on their own, we are telling them that they need to show some effort first.

Consider that by the time they have been given a homework problem, they have (presumably) read what they need to know to work it. They have read examples in the text aimed at showing them how to work it. They have been told in lecture how to work it. They have been shown examples in class on how to work it. Something hasn't clicked. Having yet one more person tell them how to do it isn't likely to make much of a difference. They need to struggle with it, based on THEIR current level of comprehension, in order to have a reasonable chance of owning it. By showing SOME effort, no matter how right or how wrong, it puts us in a position to help identify what THEIR stumbling block is, at this point, and help them get past it. But if someone tells them how to proceed, then the most likely result is going to be that they are able to get further than they could on their own, but ONLY because someone carried them -- someone that won't be their when they take the exam. Sadly, because they were able to get further than they could on their own, they are also likely to mistake that for having "learned" something, but in all likelihood they will not have learned it any better than when they were shown it all the previous times. But when their mistakes are pointed out to them in work that they did on their own, even if it's just trying to set up the first equation, then they have a real likelihood of getting that much needed something to click.

 

The problem is that teachers do not teach anything anymore. The teacher tells the student to look on the internet for the answer.

 

Many other times they do not realize (because they haven't read the Sticky)

There are two stickies, here and here.

 

What if all they need is a nudge in the right direction for their memory on the subject to kick in? That hardly compormises their ability to learn. They would still need to work out the problem, and that is what makes them remember the material. I just don't think it is right for the first responses to be "do it yourself".. Give the person the benefit of the doubt and provide the nudge. If they continue to not try, then drop it there and let them struggle.

 

What if all they need is a nudge in the right direction for their memory on the subject to kick in?

What if they looked at their textbook or notes to get that nudge? Since we don’t know you , a lack of respect for the Forum rules isn’t conducive to engendering trust.

You have spent more time complaining than it would have taken to look through your book or notes.

 

There are two stickies, here and here.

I did read those, but I assume someone looking to a forum for help is not going to immediately go to the stickies to read the rules of asking for help. I agree with the stickies, but I feel that there are motivated people willing to try being thrown to the wolves unneccessarily. i am not a big contributor here, so y'all probably know the types of people that come here better than I do, but when I did tutor work for GED people, I learned that sometimes people can be totally clueless and still honestly want to learn.

 

I did read those, but I assume someone looking to a forum for help is not going to immediately go to the stickies to read the rules of asking for help. I agree with the stickies, but I feel that there are motivated people willing to try being thrown to the wolves unneccessarily. i am not a big contributor here, so y'all probably know the types of people that come here better than I do, but when I did tutor work for GED people, I learned that sometimes people can be totally clueless and still honestly want to learn.

Which is why members try to politely explain the rules and often point a poster to the stickies. This is a form of help and NOT a form of throwing the TS to the “wolves”.

On the other hand, when a TS apparently refuses to follow the forum rules and spends time complaining instead of trying to provide the information requested…

Since you indicate that you used to tutor, I’m sure that it’s not a case of you being lazy or opportunistic. And I think I understand your position. It is a valid one. Just not how Homework Help works. I’m just suggesting that you look at the optics of the situation.

 

I did read those, but I assume someone looking to a forum for help is not going to immediately go to the stickies to read the rules of asking for help. I agree with the stickies, but I feel that there are motivated people willing to try being thrown to the wolves unneccessarily. i am not a big contributor here, so y'all probably know the types of people that come here better than I do, but when I did tutor work for GED people, I learned that sometimes people can be totally clueless and still honestly want to learn.

You could start your own forum and make up, in the words of Bill Maher, "NEW RULES". Then we can judge the relative utility of your suggestion by comparing the traffic metrics.

 

Hmmm, how is starting another identical thread and hoping it isn’t noticed in an effort to further disrespect the Forum rules, going to engender respect?

 

I think there is a misunderstanding on the part of some folks here because it sounds like some people think that @Halfpint786, the TS of this thread, is the person that posted a problem in another thread and is now complaining about the type of help they did or did not receive. That's not the case. Halfpint was a responder to the other thread and, properly, chose to start a different thread for this discussion as opposed to hijacking the other thread. Just wanted to make sure that that was clear.

 

What if all they need is a nudge in the right direction for their memory on the subject to kick in? That hardly compormises their ability to learn. They would still need to work out the problem, and that is what makes them remember the material. I just don't think it is right for the first responses to be "do it yourself".. Give the person the benefit of the doubt and provide the nudge. If they continue to not try, then drop it there and let them struggle.

But what kind of nudge? Without seeing something that indicates what their approach is, or what their thinking is, or how far they can get, we have no basis for knowing what kind of nudge might be needed? Is it a nudge regarding the fundamental concepts? Is it a nudge in understanding what is being asked for? Is it a nudge in setting up an equation that models the problem? Is it a nudge in dealing with the math that is involved? We don't have crystal balls and the spectrum of stumbling blocks that people have is extremely broad. It works best if we can see SOMETHING, it doesn't need to be much, to give us hint as to what kind of nudges might be most helpful.

 

There are two stickies, here and here.

Yes, but most students don't read either of them. That's not surprising -- most members have never looked at any of the stickies, or the User Agreement, or the Privacy Policy, or the Terms of Service, so we can't really assume either that a poster here has looked at them, or that they have deliberately and willfully chosen to not look. The most likely situation is that they've never even noticed that there's anything to look at.

 

I feel that there are motivated people willing to try being thrown to the wolves

I know of no homework poster "thrown to the wolves" that made at least a minimum attempt to solve their problem.

If you have an example of one please post it.

 

His position is that posters that are told that they are expected to post an attempt before receiving help might feel they are being thrown to the wolves.

 

But what kind of nudge? Without seeing something that indicates what their approach is, or what their thinking is, or how far they can get, we have no basis for knowing what kind of nudge might be needed? Is it a nudge regarding the fundamental concepts? Is it a nudge in understanding what is being asked for? Is it a nudge in setting up an equation that models the problem? Is it a nudge in dealing with the math that is involved? We don't have crystal balls and the spectrum of stumbling blocks that people have is extremely broad. It works best if we can see SOMETHING, it doesn't need to be much, to give us hint as to what kind of nudges might be most helpful.

Honestly, I don't know what that nudge is. I guess just offering an explanation on how to take the first step and seeing what their response is would be my answer. Consider what I did earlier, suggesting to find a parallel equivalent and combine resistances. If he chose to not come back with an attempt at doing that much, my efforts end there.

 

I didnt even tell him how to do that either. that was for him to figure out

 

Yes, but most students don't read either of them

Yes, I get that of course. That’s why I posted the links.

 

When someone posts a homework question, aside from moving the thread here whenever appropriate and explaining why that was done, I challenge everyone here to refrain from pointing out the obvious (that its homework) and just try to provide actual help with homework questions. This does not require providing an answer. For instance, if someone posts in homework, how do I solve 2x+4=12?, dont remind them its homework, dont tell them they need to try first (because obviously they dont know how), and dont give the answer, just TEACH THEM what to do and be done with it!!!!!!!!

I understand where you are coming from. Part of the problem with a thread: I can't see the face or the tone of voice of the person needing help. 80% of communication is unspoken. I have learned that from past tutoring I have offered students. The only way to make up for it in this format is to provide plenty of details on the problem the TS is looking for help on. This does not only apply to homework but any question posed on a thread. Everyone on this forum wants to help others and is willing to take time to do so (thus the forum). In order to do that with homework; the more details provided by the TS, either in words or an attempt to answer the question is a reasonable request. But yes: by asking additional questions and providing hints is far more helpful to the TS but at the same time any effort by the TS on homework allows responders to better see where a student is going wrong so they can help more effectively. So there is a balance of both.

 

I didnt even tell him how to do that either. that was for him to figure out

I agree with your proposition. If I see a clueless post in the homework section (or other) I usually try to tell/teach the best I can in the time I have to the ability the student appears to have. Nothing is stoping you from posting the answer. If if someone removes the answer (which I doubt they will) is it likely that the original poster will have already seen it. Alternatively, I think you can send the original poster a copy of your post as a direct message to further insure they see the answer. I don't see harm in giving answers - if my 3-minute answer turns someone into an engineer who is really not qualified to be an engineer, well, I'll consider myself a god of science - until then, I'll just believe I have mortal skills and teaching is something I enjoy.