Motion detector solenoid lol

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
Hey! Super beginner here, I’m looking to design a system, that a pir controls 2 push solenoids. im assuming I need a controller or a contactor, for once motion is detected I need solenoid 1 to push out, then once motion is no longer being detected I need solenoid 2 to push out, I’m a electrician so I have a basic concept to circuitry, but I just don’t know the fine print of getting a pir to control 2 solenoids individually, with or without a controller
 

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
3,042
Do you have a picture or part number on the solenoid you want to use? AC or DC? What voltage?
Does the solenoid go out when power is applied and then come back in when there is no power?
What kind of signal comes from the motion detector?

Start out with no motion, both solenoids are in.
Morion detected, 1=out, 2=in.
No motion, 1=?, 2=out. What condition should solenoid 1 be in?
How do you want to reset back to 1=in, 2=in?
 

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
So I want both solenoid to be in with no motion, once motion I want solenoid 1 to go out then back in, then with motion solenoid 2 to go out then back in.
or if it makes it easier, with motion 1 out, then no motion 1 goes in, 2 goes out and vice versa. I planned on using a 5-6v battery.
further research I may have to use a 2 channel relay with the pir
 

GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
2,196
Have the PIR drive a SPDT relay of sufficient rating to drive the solenoids. One solenoid on NC, other on NO, with common connected to whatever voltage source the solenoids require.
 

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
the only issue with this that I see, is the solenoids are only able to be powered for 1sec. So from what I am seeing, both of them needed me to be closed, then once power is supplied, it needs to solenoid 1 needs to push out, then back in. Then once motion is gone, solenoid 2 gets energized pushes out then back in
 

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
that’s what I’m going to need it to do, I’m still planning this project so I haven’t benchtested anything, but I assume, with the no/nc relay, once motion is detected the voltage will stay on that solenoid for extended periods of time with this setup.
But if I added a microcontroller I assume I’d be able to program that controller to send voltage to push solenoid out, then in.
then once motion is gone, send solenoid 2 out to shut it off, then solenoid solenoid return in.
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
8,995
that’s what I’m going to need it to do, I’m still planning this project so I haven’t benchtested anything, but I assume, with the no/nc relay, once motion is detected the voltage will stay on that solenoid for extended periods of time with this setup.
But if I added a microcontroller I assume I’d be able to program that controller to send voltage to push solenoid out, then in.
then once motion is gone, send solenoid 2 out to shut it off, then solenoid solenoid return in.
If you are experienced with microcontrollers, this is by far the easiest solution. It also has the advantage that you can adjust the behavior in firmware, should you decide the timing needs to be different. Even if you are not experienced, someone here should be able to get you going with Arduino and a relay shield.
 

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
If you are experienced with microcontrollers, this is by far the easiest solution. It also has the advantage that you can adjust the behavior in firmware, should you decide the timing needs to be different. Even if you are not experienced, someone here should be able to get you going with Arduino and a relay shield.
Sweet, I’m going to look into buying the components today and get them, should I just keep posting it this or try to go to a arduino forum?
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
9,170
Sweet, I’m going to look into buying the components today and get them, should I just keep posting it this or try to go to a arduino forum?
Welcome to AAC.

you can get the help you need here. It would also help to know what the solenoids are doing.
 

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
3,042
I am looking at the CD4538B IC which is a dual multivibrator. One half will make a 1 second pulse on every rising edge while the other half will make a 1 second pulse on the falling edge. (time is set by a resistor & capacitor) This IC will make the two signals you need from the motion detector. I don't have time to work on this today. It is a simple project for those that solder parts together.
 

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
I am looking at the CD4538B IC which is a dual multivibrator. One half will make a 1 second pulse on every rising edge while the other half will make a 1 second pulse on the falling edge. (time is set by a resistor & capacitor) This IC will make the two signals you need from the motion detector. I don't have time to work on this today. It is a simple project for those that solder parts together.
I’d like to connect at some point via email or text to get more of your idea, I have a slight concept but it’ll be good to get a clear picture
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,696
What are the solenoids operating, e.g. Nature of the load, I assume these are not pneumatic or hydraulic versions?, But moving some physical actuator?
Do you presently have the solenoids?
 

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
What are the solenoids operating, e.g. Nature of the load, I assume these are not pneumatic or hydraulic versions?, But moving some physical actuator?
Do you presently have the solenoids?
I do not have them currently, I’m getting a list and going to order today, they are 5v solenoids 0.5ma current. They will just be pressing a button
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,566
Will the solenoids possibly also have a switch to sense when they are extended? That could make the control scheme simpler, and are you going to want adjustable times for them to stay extended? What sort of output will the PIR sensor have? Will the whole system be battery powered so that minimum power consumption is a goal?
 

Thread Starter

Erock12

Joined Dec 26, 2023
20
Will the solenoids possibly also have a switch to sense when they are extended? That could make the control scheme simpler, and are you going to want adjustable times for them to stay extended? What sort of output will the PIR sensor have? Will the whole system be battery powered so that minimum power consumption is a goal?
I didn’t have anything planned to sense when they are extended, I figured the controller will be able to send out the current whenever the motion is detected or not detected. Yes it will be battery detected, I planned a 9v battery for everything
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,696
I do not have them currently, I’m getting a list and going to order today, they are 5v solenoids 0.5ma current. They will just be pressing a button
Do they require retention when activated or can they be momentary/maintained?
The former generally only requires one coil.
Have you calculated the force required?
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
9,170
I didn’t have anything planned to sense when they are extended, I figured the controller will be able to send out the current whenever the motion is detected or not detected. Yes it will be battery detected, I planned a 9v battery for everything
The PP3 (9V battery) is a terrible power source, particularly for high current applications like solenoids. I encourage you to consider something else. Even 6 AA cells are much, much better than the 9V. But even better than that is a rechargeable option, like LiPo or other lithium based cells.
 
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