Microsoft Continues To Tick Me Off

Thread Starter

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,453
Hello there,

Yesterday I went to use Windows Fax and Scan on my computer that I had used several times in the past, and lo and behold, the Fax program was gone. It must have been removed from the computer during one of the "updates". How stupid is that, really? Removed the entire program nowhere to be found on the computer. I found my directories with my contacts and stuff like that, but they would be completely moot without the Fax and Scan program that WAS on the computer.

I went to the MS "Store" and found Windows Fax and Scan, then when I clicked "Install", it did some sort of backflip and did not start the download. Apparently, you have to hit yet another button that would say "Get It" or something like that. Is that nuts too? The problem was, when the dialog box for that came up, it had no "Get It" button so it was impossible to download.

After three hours of messing with this and searching on the web and finding all kinds of misinformation that did not work at all, I finally found out it falls under some sort of "Optional Features" menu, which did not appear where it was said to appear on the web and that made it much more difficult to find, and at the time I wasn't sure what the heck was going on.
So anyway, I eventually found it, and even then there were two such menus and I got the wrong one with the first try, then finally the right one and finally found Windows Fax and Scan so I was able to put it BACK on my computer where it belongs.

What I'd really like to know is what kind of idiots are responsible for taking it off the computer in the first place. I've read countless other stories like this on the web too about users missing the Fax and Scan program either to begin with or sometime later after they used it already like I did.

Any ideas what MS is up to with these stupid changes?

BTW, hard to resist a flow of expletives when something as stupid and troublesome and time consuming comes up like this because of a fault with MS.
 
Last edited:

Thread Starter

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,453
I've been looking everywhere for Windows Telex ... and it seems that Windows never had it in the first place ...
Hi,

I've never needed that and do not know much about it, but I have read that it is "natively" supported on Windows 10 and up. That's what I read though I have not used it at all for any function.
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,250
Hi,

I've never needed that and do not know much about it, but I have read that it is "natively" supported on Windows 10 and up. That's what I read though I have not used it at all for any function.
My comment was intended as comedic sarcasm... I'd be really, Really, REALLY surprised if it turns out that Windows had it included in its native code afer all. What would be next? ... Windows Morse?
 

Thread Starter

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,453
My comment was intended as comedic sarcasm... I'd be really, Really, REALLY surprised if it turns out that Windows had it included in its native code afer all. What would be next? ... Windows Morse?
Hi,

Well, trying to predict what MS is going to include and/or remove is next to impossible unless you know how to roll dice or flip a coin :)
I've seen some really, really stupid stuff done by them in versions from Windows 3.1 on up to Win11, and I've used a lot of versions in between. The main take by myself is that they are very inconsistent about what they deem good or not so good, and even switch back and forth between ideals for some things. Very strange behavior from a company that makes software, and not only that, but that which is used around the entire world. They also seem to have no reserves about breaking existing software that runs on their platform by changing core functionality. Really, really, strange and ridiculous to say the very least.

They had to have some motivation for removing Fax and Scan and I am wondering if it is to try to get people to buy more software that they would benefit from also. Or is it they suddenly decided it wasn't good enough to be included in Windows, as there are some serious flaws within the program, but then why not improve it.
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
14,312
They had to have some motivation for removing Fax and Scan
I've got the latest update of Win10 Home, and Fax and Scan is still included (under 'Windows accessories').
As I have neither a fax machine nor a scanner I have no way of knowing whether or not it works.
 

Hymie

Joined Mar 30, 2018
1,282
I too will be celebrating when that company is consigned to history – Bill Gates must be laughing his testicles off, having made so much money out of rubbish software.
 

Thread Starter

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,453
I've got the latest update of Win10 Home, and Fax and Scan is still included (under 'Windows accessories').
As I have neither a fax machine nor a scanner I have no way of knowing whether or not it works.
As far as I know, it works, but takes some doing to get it to work and there are various catches to it.
For one, if you apply a Local Dialing Method, you have to enter the number in some canonical form like +1 (123) 456-7890
or else it gives an error and does not work. If you do not use a Local Dialing Method you can just get the number from your contacts. However when you set up the contact to be used, you have to enter the Fax number in four or five different places or it doesn't know what to do.
Once you figure it all out, you can then just click on the button that lets you pick a contact, then choose the contact, then it shows the contact name in the phone number box, then it will dial out when you hit 'send'.
This is when using a modem such as a USB modem, but supposedly you can use an internet connection to send too but you may have to have some kind of service.

The alternate was to install a third party Fax program and set up the fax to be sent, then TRY to send it. This third party Fax program is said to be "free" but when you go to send it, it demands you choose a pay scale per month for using it. So it's not free even though it says it is before you install it. Needless to say, I uninstalled that. Why pay for something that is free. Granted to use Fax and Scan with a modem the modem has an initial cost, but some are not that expensive. So you pay once, then send as many faxes as you like. The third party program wants you to enter into a 'subscription' which is plain silly.
 

xox

Joined Sep 8, 2017
838
Hello there,

Yesterday I went to use Windows Fax and Scan on my computer that I had used several times in the past, and lo and behold, the Fax program was gone. It must have been removed from the computer during one of the "updates". How stupid is that, really? Removed the entire program nowhere to be found on the computer. I found my directories with my contacts and stuff like that, but they would be completely moot without the Fax and Scan program that WAS on the computer.

I went to the MS "Store" and found Windows Fax and Scan, then when I clicked "Install", it did some sort of backflip and did not start the download. Apparently, you have to hit yet another button that would say "Get It" or something like that. Is that nuts too? The problem was, when the dialog box for that came up, it had no "Get It" button so it was impossible to download.

After three hours of messing with this and searching on the web and finding all kinds of misinformation that did not work at all, I finally found out it falls under some sort of "Optional Features" menu, which did not appear where it was said to appear on the web and that made it much more difficult to find, and at the time I wasn't sure what the heck was going on.
So anyway, I eventually found it, and even then there were two such menus and I got the wrong one with the first try, then finally the right one and finally found Windows Fax and Scan so I was able to put it BACK on my computer where it belongs.

What I'd really like to know is what kind of idiots are responsible for taking it off the computer in the first place. I've read countless other stories like this on the web too about users missing the Fax and Scan program either to begin with or sometime later after they used it already like I did.

Any ideas what MS is up to with these stupid changes?

BTW, hard to resist a flow of expletives when something as stupid and troublesome and time consuming comes up like this because of a fault with MS.
Short of make a copy of your favorite system programs and then running a script at boot time to invoke an "if-not-found-restore-folder" routine, I don't know. Even tinkering with the registry doesn't seem to be a viable option here (correct me if I am wrong). Windows Update is rather inflexible about these things. To say the least.

The sad truth is, you do not really own your operating system. THEY do! After Win2000 (their only good offering, imo) I got fed up with MS products and started looking elsewhere. Twenty years later I am happy to report that Linux seems to have withstood the test of time. All of the software I use is free and open source, including a full suite of video and audio editing tools, access to more or less any programming language environment I could possibly need, and best of all.....no forced automatic updates!!! (I do update regularly, but for the most part manually.)

Another thing about MS products which is a huge pain is that they are just incredibly prone to being hacked! Heck, a dozen lines of C# could be used to send pretty much any event via WMI, anywhere in the world (care of whatever phishing attack Windows may be susceptible to at that particular moment). Windows also scoops up lots of system events and regularly streams them back to their servers for who knows what. I am sure it is buried somewhere in their TOS, but honestly, is that really necessary?!
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,250
Short of make a copy of your favorite system programs and then running a script at boot time to invoke an "if-not-found-restore-folder" routine, I don't know. Even tinkering with the registry doesn't seem to be a viable option here (correct me if I am wrong). Windows Update is rather inflexible about these things. To say the least.

The sad truth is, you do not really own your operating system. THEY do! After Win2000 (their only good offering, imo) I got fed up with MS products and started looking elsewhere. Twenty years later I am happy to report that Linux seems to have withstood the test of time. All of the software I use is free and open source, including a full suite of video and audio editing tools, access to more or less any programming language environment I could possibly need, and best of all.....no forced automatic updates!!! (I do update regularly, but for the most part manually.)

Another thing about MS products which is a huge pain is that they are just incredibly prone to being hacked! Heck, a dozen lines of C# could be used to send pretty much any event via WMI, anywhere in the world (care of whatever phishing attack Windows may be susceptible to at that particular moment). Windows also scoops up lots of system events and regularly streams them back to their servers for who knows what. I am sure it is buried somewhere in their TOS, but honestly, is that really necessary?!
Question, what version of Linux are you using?
 

xox

Joined Sep 8, 2017
838
Question, what version of Linux are you using?
I've been using Ubuntu for the last ten years or so. It's pretty full-featured "right out of the box" and seems to be actively maintained.

If you want to try it out without replacing your current operating system, just install Docker. From there you can load not just Ubuntu Desktop but also many other Linux distros. (tutorial)

If you find one that works for you, simply burn the ISO to a usb-stick and then boot a machine with boot-from-usb enabled to install.
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,250
I've been using Ubuntu for the last ten years or so. It's pretty full-featured "right out of the box" and seems to be actively maintained.

If you want to try it out without replacing your current operating system, just install Docker. From there you can load not just Ubuntu Desktop but also many other Linux distros. (tutorial)

If you find one that works for you, simply burn the ISO to a usb-stick and then boot a machine with boot-from-usb enabled to install.
I've been wanting to take a stab at Linux for years and years ... I've already absolutely HAD IT with beyond-crappy Windows ... thanks for the suggestion, X ... I'm going to follow through. I'll be opening another thread soon and tag you there, is that ok with you?
 

Thread Starter

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,453
Short of make a copy of your favorite system programs and then running a script at boot time to invoke an "if-not-found-restore-folder" routine, I don't know. Even tinkering with the registry doesn't seem to be a viable option here (correct me if I am wrong). Windows Update is rather inflexible about these things. To say the least.

The sad truth is, you do not really own your operating system. THEY do! After Win2000 (their only good offering, imo) I got fed up with MS products and started looking elsewhere. Twenty years later I am happy to report that Linux seems to have withstood the test of time. All of the software I use is free and open source, including a full suite of video and audio editing tools, access to more or less any programming language environment I could possibly need, and best of all.....no forced automatic updates!!! (I do update regularly, but for the most part manually.)

Another thing about MS products which is a huge pain is that they are just incredibly prone to being hacked! Heck, a dozen lines of C# could be used to send pretty much any event via WMI, anywhere in the world (care of whatever phishing attack Windows may be susceptible to at that particular moment). Windows also scoops up lots of system events and regularly streams them back to their servers for who knows what. I am sure it is buried somewhere in their TOS, but honestly, is that really necessary?!
Hi,

I'd have to track all the dll's used with the program too and right now not sure which ones are being used. They would have to be installed also.

I tried Linux years ago but by that time I had written a lot of programs for Windows only, which means switching to Linux would be very difficult as I'd have to rewrite countless programs for the Linux platform. I had built up some very sophisticated programs using the Windows API so it would be quite a task to redo all of that, taking months if not years. I've been writing Windows programs since around 1998 or around there. That's over 20 years ago. A LOT of typing in that time :)

There has to be some Law of expectancy when it comes to Windows. If people expect a certain functionality, it should be there. It's probably just that nobody has called them out on it yet in court.

I also talked to MS about forced updates. They said if you ran in Airplane mode that the updates would not come in. They lied, that did not prevent it.
The problem with a forced update is that you cannot have your machine run 24/7 as is needed with some applications. The update will force a reboot at some point and that will interrupt the process. There might be a way to automatically start the software, but the interruption could still be a huge problem. For one of my applications it would be.
The update should come at a time when you can sit right there in front of the machine and do whatever is needed after the update. That means you should be able to 'allow' the update to come in like in the past with other versions of Winblows.
 
Last edited:

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
30,792
If you could inhibit all binary updates you could conceivably have a hack-free computer.
It would be nice sometimes to be able to run your computer off-line.
 
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