looking to automate a hay baler

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
good afternoon guys and gals thanks for allowing me in your group , i am currently working on my hay baler (round hesston 5580) it uses a polarity reversing momentary toggle switch now to extend a linear actuator you hold it till its fully extended and the hay grabs the twine , you count to 5 bump the reverse side of switch wait 3-5 seconds , several times till its in the home position and ready to dump the bale and start again , i would like to add a one button to start type control , i work in public utilities and have a limited understanding of controls .here is what i need to happen
1) push start
2) send positive 12 volts to actuator for 3-10 seconds (adjustable timer )
3) wait 5 seconds reverse polarity for 1-2 seconds ,wait 3-5 seconds send second shot of reversed polarity . this would need to happen around 10 times to complete the cycle and return the actuator to home position ,
4) kick a light on saying cycle is complete and ready to wrap next bale
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
11,324
Welcome to AAC!
Sounds like a relatively straightforward task for a microcontroller plus some interfacing circuitry to actuator, buttons and display.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
20,729
That is an ideal candidate for a Smart Relay, has the logic to allow low level P.B. control and outputs to pick up the power components via a relay etc. A few internal timers included.
But requires a little programming.
Max.
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
2,647
From your description I am not clear about the way the actuator works. Does it stop in three positions, Retracted , half extended (The home position ?) and fully extended ? Does the actuator return to the home position when the swtch is released to the center position ? (I have never seen a hay baler so I can only go by your description of the sequence.) It could be done very easily using a microcontroller but it could also be done using a few NE555s to produce the delays and the sequence controlled by CD4017 or other logic ICs. I have done something similar to sequence some solenoid valves using a PIC16f88. The ADC reads values from 4 potentiometers to control 4 timing periods.

Les.
 

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
From your description I am not clear about the way the actuator works. Does it stop in three positions, Retracted , half extended (The home position ?) and fully extended ? Does the actuator return to the home position when the swtch is released to the center position ? (I have never seen a hay baler so I can only go by your description of the sequence.) It could be done very easily using a microcontroller but it could also be done using a few NE555s to produce the delays and the sequence controlled by CD4017 or other logic ICs. I have done something similar to sequence some solenoid valves using a PIC16f88. The ADC reads values from 4 potentiometers to control 4 timing periods.

Les.
currently it is a momentary toggle switch that you must run by hand , one way run it out yo start position and the other way you just bump to move them back its a very simple polarity reversing toggle switch that id like to make a single button and let it run a cycle, thank you
 

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
From your description I am not clear about the way the actuator works. Does it stop in three positions, Retracted , half extended (The home position ?) and fully extended ? Does the actuator return to the home position when the swtch is released to the center position ? (I have never seen a hay baler so I can only go by your description of the sequence.) It could be done very easily using a microcontroller but it could also be done using a few NE555s to produce the delays and the sequence controlled by CD4017 or other logic ICs. I have done something similar to sequence some solenoid valves using a PIC16f88. The ADC reads values from 4 potentiometers to control 4 timing periods.

Les.
im sorry i think i responded to the wrong person earlier , its a simple polarity reversing toggle now (no program ) i simply push it up to extend the arm (linear actuator full open or out) it stays in that position for 3-5 seconds and i bump the switch down in several short reverse pole to bring the string feeders back in the entire control is a power switch and the momentary out/stop/in toggle , its right between a manual machine and the new computer controlled equipment , i hope this helps the understanding of operation , joe
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
24,997
i bump the switch down in several short reverse pole to bring the string feeders back in
Why does it need to be bumped several times, and not continuously pressed?
Do you have to look at the mechanism to determine when it is in the desired position?
If so, you may need to add a limit-switch if you want it automated.
 

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
Why does it need to be bumped several times, and not continuously pressed?
Do you have to look at the mechanism to determine when it is in the desired position?
If so, you may need to add a limit-switch if you want it automated.
the reason for bump and wait is string spacing , i do look at it while im doing the bumping of return side but with tractor rpm / bale speed i would not really need to if i could adjust the control to step or run back to home position over a set period of time , so steps or a slow steady return rate would both work , thanks joe
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
2,647
Does this flow chart describe exactly what you require.
Screen Shot 06-08-20 at 06.20 PM.PNG
I have inserted this as a picture as the forum software would change the formatting.
We would need three time adjustment potentiometers. Extend time, Pause time, Bump time and a switch to set the number of bump presses. Yo will need to define the maximum and minimum value of these three time and the maximum and minimum number of bump presses.
You will also need to tell us if the actuator has limit switches at both ends of it's travel.

Les.
 

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
Does this flow chart describe exactly what you require.
View attachment 209149
I have inserted this as a picture as the forum software would change the formatting.
We would need three time adjustment potentiometers. Extend time, Pause time, Bump time and a switch to set the number of bump presses. Yo will need to define the maximum and minimum value of these three time and the maximum and minimum number of bump presses.
You will also need to tell us if the actuator has limit switches at both ends of it's travel.

Les.
thank you les ! that is it in a nut shell ! bump count would be adjustable for power on and power off time also correct ? joe.
 

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
thank you les ! that is it in a nut shell ! bump count would be adjustable for power on and power off time also correct ? joe.
as to the best of my knowledge it does not have limit switches its a warner electric MCSD with only 2 wires so it would be internal limiting if any im guessing . joe,
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
2,647
Hi Joe,
I have missed out a step in the sequence. There needs to be a step between decrement bump counter and go to bump loop so there is a pause between bumps. We will call this "bump pause" This means we now need 4 potentiometers for setting times.
The next step is for you to provide the information on the timing value ranges and numbers of bumps, You will also need to measure the actuator current so we know the required contact rating of the relay contacts. Also by noting if the current increases or decreases when the actuator reaches the limits of travel will tell us if the actuator has built in limit switches.

Les.
 

andrewmm

Joined Feb 25, 2011
336
On a side note:

The environment this is going to work in is horrendous.
The power will be very variable, with lots of spikes and brown outs.
the temperature range could be interesting, mid day sun, to working at night, but I assume only in summer.
Dust and humidity are going to be bad. My guess is this would not be used for 11 months, being left outside or at best in an open barn, then need to just work.
mechanics are going to have to be epic. This thing is going to bump down bad roads at speed, and then all over fields which are less than manicured.

One BIG last one. Safety.
number of deaths on farms is horrendous. This needs to be designed intrinsically safe, so it does not end up bailing a human trying to say free a switch..
 

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
On a side note:

The environment this is going to work in is horrendous.
The power will be very variable, with lots of spikes and brown outs.
the temperature range could be interesting, mid day sun, to working at night, but I assume only in summer.
Dust and humidity are going to be bad. My guess is this would not be used for 11 months, being left outside or at best in an open barn, then need to just work.
mechanics are going to have to be epic. This thing is going to bump down bad roads at speed, and then all over fields which are less than manicured.

One BIG last one. Safety.
number of deaths on farms is horrendous. This needs to be designed intrinsically safe, so it does not end up bailing a human trying to say free a switch..
i mostly agree with all these statements , except it will be sitting for 7-8 months in the barn , and you are correct on the safety side of things when you get out of the seat a really annoying buzzer goes off but machine will still run , i really hope thats not the last thing i hear as being made int a hay bale till i run out of twine ,
 

Thread Starter

makinghay1970

Joined Jun 5, 2020
10
Hi Joe,
I have missed out a step in the sequence. There needs to be a step between decrement bump counter and go to bump loop so there is a pause between bumps. We will call this "bump pause" This means we now need 4 potentiometers for setting times.
The next step is for you to provide the information on the timing value ranges and numbers of bumps, You will also need to measure the actuator current so we know the required contact rating of the relay contacts. Also by noting if the current increases or decreases when the actuator reaches the limits of travel will tell us if the actuator has built in limit switches.

Les.
les , i believe i may have over simplified the process at first and was thinking it would be safe and simple now after the conversations her i feel it may be neither , im going to stick with what i currently have , thanks for the help joe
 
Top