Do you happen to know the timeframe when Ballmer mentioned licensing?
His tenure lasted until 2014 (thank you, Wikipedia) so it must have been a couple of years before.

 

Do you happen to know the timeframe when Ballmer mentioned licensing?
His tenure lasted until 2014 (thank you, Wikipedia) so it must have been a couple of years before.

The articles I posted are dated. These were in the time of Microsoft's anti-Linux FUD, and SCO's lawsuits.

 

I see it now (facepalm)

 

This is what actual design looks like, it can be communicated, reviewed, supplied to development and test teams and so on.

NT OS/2 Design Workbook Introduction

I really don't see anything other than some random definitions. You keep complaining about the lack of design and we'll keep doing what we do perfectly well without it.

 

I really don't see anything other than some random definitions. You keep complaining about the lack of design and we'll keep doing what we do perfectly well without it.

What I showed you was a real document (its in the Smithsonian) the strategic objectives of the NT OS project, it isn't random.

It's rather sad that you refer to my honest appraisal of Linux's feeble origins as "complaining about the lack of design" since when did it become unfashionable to expect professional engineering design from something most of us are now involuntarily subject to via our phones, TVs, cars, hotel booking systems, medical establishments?

This forum is an engineering forum, experts espouse design excellence, justifiable design decisions, quality practices for hardware and software engineering, why do you expect me to turn a blind eye to a hack job that was never ever designed?

Linux is not the outcome of a design process, this is a readily checked fact, if it doesn't bother you then that's your prerogative, but it doesn't change that fact.

Would you excitedly board an aircraft that was never designed? yes, I suspect you probably would.

 

What I showed you was a real document (its in the Smithsonian) the strategic objectives of the NT OS project, it isn't random.

It's rather sad that you refer to my honest appraisal of Linux's feeble origins as "complaining about the lack of design" since when did it become unfashionable to expect professional engineering design from something most of us are now involuntarily subject to via our phones, TVs, cars, hotel booking systems, medical establishments?

This forum is an engineering forum, experts espouse design excellence, justifiable design decisions, quality practices for hardware and software engineering, why do you expect me to turn a blind eye to a hack job that was never ever designed?

Linux is not the outcome of a design process, this is a readily checked fact, if it doesn't bother you then that's your prerogative, but it doesn't change that fact.

Would you excitedly board an aircraft that was never designed? yes, I suspect you probably would.

I'm not going to argue this any further. I just feel you are trying to compare someone building something in their garage for fun to something built by a corporation. They aren't going to be the same no matter how you think it should be.
As far as boarding a plane that is engineered and certified have you heard of Boeing? Making the assumption I would risk my life because I use a particular operating system is a HUGE and arrogant stretch on your part. Have a great day. That is all.

One quick edit... Out of all of the debates I have ever looked through you are the only person I can remember making in issue about not having a published design manual. I can understand the configuration, cryptic commands, not having easy to use wizards, and the like as it does take some effort to get things working correctly and even more with some closed source drivers. I respect those comments and criticisms 100%.

 

I'm not going to argue this any further.

Very well, as you wish.

I just feel you are trying to compare someone building something in their garage for fun to something built by a corporation. They aren't going to be the same no matter how you think it should be.

I'm being as critical of Linux as many hardware experts here might be of some proposed circuit design, there are some true experts here as you know and they don't pussy foot around when they react to poor designs.

Why should software be treated any differently? does the fact that a poor design is popular make it well designed? I don't think so.

As far as boarding a plane that is engineered and certified have you heard of Boeing? Making the assumption I would risk my life because I use a particular operating system is a HUGE and arrogant stretch on your part. Have a great day. That is all.

You might be in self driving car one day, that's running Linux, many do.

One quick edit... Out of all of the debates I have ever looked through you are the only person I can remember making in issue about not having a published design manual. I can understand the configuration, cryptic commands, not having easy to use wizards, and the like as it does take some effort to get things working correctly and even more with some closed source drivers. I respect those comments and criticisms 100%.

Even small hobby projects often have an design outlines, a set of goals and so on, many of mine do. Many people love Linux, I get it, I've installed and played with it myself a few times over the years. But as an experienced software engineer I do have views on quality and design I can't help that.

Windows (despites it acknowledged shortcomings) was designed and designed by a team of seasoned engineers (including hardware engineers that Dave Cutler insisted Microsoft allow him to bring to the project from DEC) Linux was not, that impacts the overall quality of a complex system and so there's frankly no under the hood comparison of the two, from the outside sure Linux might seem cute, techy, liberal, modern and so on, but compare the internals and you'll soon see that Windows is in a very different class altogether.

The only reason I mentioned that document was to simply exemplify what I mean by design, that's all it was, it shows that whether you hate Windows or not, it was designed by experienced engineers.

Linux is becoming the new C, something that had value but then serves to stifle innovation because its so pervasive and people don't care to change.

 

Linux is becoming the new C, something that had value but then serves to stifle innovation because its so pervasive and people don't care to change.

I can't resist. Quite honestly all I see is someone who just wants to trash talk something they don't like. With every new device running Linux the developers have the option of using hack job of an OS with no design specifications, use another option, or create their own which would actually be better tailored to their design.
As far as a self driving car goes I'll walk first. I sm perfectly capable of driving myself.

 

I can't resist. Quite honestly all I see is someone who just wants to trash talk something they don't like.

Well that's your interpretation and is also ad hominem.

With every new device running Linux the developers have the option of using hack job of an OS with no design specifications, use another option, or create their own which would actually be better tailored to their design.
As far as a self driving car goes I'll walk first. I sm perfectly capable of driving myself.

 

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

 

I am, unfortunately, a Windows 11 user ... my plan is to eventually migrate to Linux. In the meantime, I have avoided a lot of headaches by simply blocking all of Windows updates (not an easy process) and completely getting rid of Defender (another non-trivial task). My VPN already has an antivirus and antimalware in it, so I'm as (theoretically) protected as I can be. I am thoroughly convinced that 99% of all the updates being pushed (imposed would be a better word) by Microsoft are 100% intended to tighten the noose around your neck. Your personal safety and privacy being the last of their concerns.

My desktop and laptop have been running quite smoothly ever since I got rid of those two irksome and irritating processes.

 

I am, unfortunately, a Windows 11 user ... my plan is to eventually migrate to Linux. In the meantime, I have avoided a lot of headaches by simply blocking all of Windows updates (not an easy process) and completely getting rid of Defender (another non-trivial task). My VPN already has an antivirus and antimalware in it, so I'm as (theoretically) protected as I can be. I am thoroughly convinced that 99% of all the updates being pushed (imposed would be a better word) by Microsoft are 100% intended to tighten the noose around your neck. Your personal safety and privacy being the last of their concerns.

My desktop and laptop have been running quite smoothly ever since I got rid of those two irksome and irritating processes.

Yes. Such an advanced OS requires 15 to 50% of its processor bandwidth to run AV continuously in the background.

This is a feature.

 

Yes. Such an advanced OS requires 15 to 50% of its processor bandwidth to run AV continuously in the background.

This is a feature.

Machines here idle at like 2%, if you see 50% all the time on antivirus apps you must be downloading some serious stuff 24/7.

 

I am, unfortunately, a Windows 11 user ... my plan is to eventually migrate to Linux. In the meantime, I have avoided a lot of headaches by simply blocking all of Windows updates (not an easy process) and completely getting rid of Defender (another non-trivial task). My VPN already has an antivirus and antimalware in it, so I'm as (theoretically) protected as I can be. I am thoroughly convinced that 99% of all the updates being pushed (imposed would be a better word) by Microsoft are 100% intended to tighten the noose around your neck. Your personal safety and privacy being the last of their concerns.

My desktop and laptop have been running quite smoothly ever since I got rid of those two irksome and irritating processes.

You trust the VPN? that's brave. What's the problem just letting defender run, I don't care about updates or defender, I just let them do their thing and never have problems.

 

Machines here idle at like 2%, if you see 50% all the time on antivirus apps you must be downloading some serious stuff 24/7.

I find the need to use an AV at all on a desktop rather quaint.

 

 

https://www.neowin.net/news/microso...ll-major-windows-11-core-features-are-broken/
Microsoft finally admits almost all major Windows 11 core features are broken

Speaking of observed problems, Microsoft notes that the following dependent Shell components and related services may fail and report an on-screen error or silently fail to execute, such as the following:

Explorer.exe crash
shelhost.exe crash
StartMenuExperienceHost
System Settings silently fails to launch

Application crashes when initializing the XAML views
Explorer running but no taskbar window.
other XAML island views fail to initialize.
ImmersiveShell

 

https://www.neowin.net/news/microso...ll-major-windows-11-core-features-are-broken/
Microsoft finally admits almost all major Windows 11 core features are broken

Speaking of observed problems, Microsoft notes that the following dependent Shell components and related services may fail and report an on-screen error or silently fail to execute, such as the following:

Explorer.exe crash
shelhost.exe crash
StartMenuExperienceHost
System Settings silently fails to launch

Application crashes when initializing the XAML views
Explorer running but no taskbar window.
other XAML island views fail to initialize.
ImmersiveShell

Best. OS. Ever.

(Secure, too!)

 

""After provisioning a PC with a Windows 11..."

Who the heck provisions a PC?

I just install an operating system.

 

https://archive.org/details/utah_unix_v4_raw

This is the raw analog waveform and the reconstructed digital tape image (analog.tap), read at the Computer History Museum's Shustek Research Archives on 19 December 2025 by Al Kossow using a modified tape reader and analyzed with Len Shustek's readtape tool.

The tape was found in July 2025 by Aleks Maricq in the storage closet of the Flux Research Group in the Merrill Engineering Building, among the documents of Jay Lepreau. It was brought to the Computer History Museum by Jon Duerig and Thalia Archibald.

http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4/README
Here you can find the contents of the UNIX v4 tape ready for bootstrapping, including a tar file of the filesystem.