i was reading tip to power garden lights

Was it in their April issue?

 

I can pick up a voltage signal with a single open-ended wire quite well. Given that the open end of the wire is two feet from anything, any possible current is much less than I can measure. And yet the voltage at the amplifier input is at least 25 millivolts to produce that level of hum, which is comparable to the output of a dynamic microphone producing a similar sound level. 25 millivolts into a 50,000 ohm load is not a very useful amount of power.

What's fundamental is the EM energy of that signal. The voltages and currents are extremely useful circuit theory (we all use but has limitations) expressions of the EM field components, simplified for practical and useful applications using simple math. We can receive sub-micro volt signals with radio receivers with total power in the nW range at the RF input gain stage. the key is useful amplification of that signal. The radio power levels are not useful for making whiskey but they are very useful for dancing with music from the radio while drinking whiskey.

 

So, they build 50,000W RF amplifiers that feed an open wire (AKA antenna) and no power is used because it is feeding an open circuit? That seems to be what you are saying. It is no different when microwatts are radiated. You still use power to do that.

 

This idea that they are separated is obsolete HS level physics from long ago

Must have been very long ago. Apparently before I was in high school (class of ‘70)

 

So, they build 50,000W RF amplifiers that feed an open wire (AKA antenna) and no power is used because it is feeding an open circuit? That seems to be what you are saying. It is no different when microwatts are radiated. You still use power to do that.

Who are you taking to? I hope it's not me because you should know me better than that to think I would be saying something so stupidly wrong about EM theory and antennas radiation resistance (power radiated) at RF in specific. There a huge difference between the low levels of 60Hz induction fields (with almost zero radiated field) around utility wires that are a tiny fraction of the wavelength (thousands of kilometers) of an actual 60Hz antenna and a normal broadcast antenna at several MHz and above, where the conductors are at least 1/4 wavelength where most most of the energy from a 50,000W RF amplifier is radiated into near and far space.

 

Must have been very long ago. Apparently before I was in high school (class of ‘70)

Like back in the days before Faraday was doing electrical experiments. I was trying to be nice to the guy.

 

This is a genuine fact. If someone wants to name it "free energy" or not, am fine with whatever. :

----> https://makezine.com/article/craft/1000-fluorescent-lights-p/
----> https://archive.nerdist.com/literally-shocking-video-shows-life-under-power-lines-is-illuminating/
---->

----> https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-tu...eld-of-the-current-flowing-in-the-power-lines
----> https://www.google.co.in/search?q=power+lines+tubelights&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=sOFIT92uFKbnmAXc-_z0DQ&biw=1124&bih=557&sei=u-FIT9_dBu7FmQXemL3_DQ&udm=2#um=1&hl=en&qscrl=1&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=u-FIT_C_GZCfmQW_ycGfDg&ved=0CD0QBSgA&q=power lines tube lights&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=de4497a4e86ac59a&biw=1124&bih=557

 

This is a genuine fact. If someone wants to name it "free energy or not, am fine with whatever. :

----> https://makezine.com/article/craft/1000-fluorescent-lights-p/
----> https://archive.nerdist.com/literally-shocking-video-shows-life-under-power-lines-is-illuminating/
---->

----> https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-tu...eld-of-the-current-flowing-in-the-power-lines
----> https://www.google.co.in/search?q=power+lines+tubelights&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=sOFIT92uFKbnmAXc-_z0DQ&biw=1124&bih=557&sei=u-FIT9_dBu7FmQXemL3_DQ&udm=2#um=1&hl=en&qscrl=1&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=u-FIT_C_GZCfmQW_ycGfDg&ved=0CD0QBSgA&q=power lines tube lights&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=de4497a4e86ac59a&biw=1124&bih=557

It's not free, they are stealing (a tiny bit of) energy. They are doing it when it's dark so you can actually see the dull glow.

The coupling coil of a RF antenna.

ET3 A. Blake Pilutti and RAN Leading Seaman John Briggs light up fluorescent tubes in the Helix Room.
https://www.navy-radio.com/commsta/holt.htm

 

Who are you taking to?

@MisterBill2 who seems to be saying radiated power does not remove power from a circuit.

 

@MisterBill2 who seems to be saying radiated power does not remove power from a circuit.

Add a name to your posts (with no quotes) please so we know who you're talking to.

 

I think part of the problem is that people are not necessarily using the term "free" in the same sense.

It is most certainly not "free" in the sense that it is energy that comes from nowhere.

It is "free" in the sense that the receiver isn't having to provide the energy (and hence, not having to pay for it). Whomever is paying for the energy to power the circuit/device that is radiating the energy is paying for it, which may or may not be the same entity.

But is it really "stealing" it? That depends on the type of coupling and, more specifically, whether capturing some of the radiated energy actually results in an increase in energy consumption by the transmitter. If not, then it is energy that the transmitter is going to pay for regardless as part of the price of operation. If it is not captured, then it is just going to be turned into heat at some point (or some other form as it interacts with other things).

 

It is most certainly not "free" in the sense that it is energy that comes from nowhere.

Whereas this hijacked thread was created to discuss what -- apparently -- looks like free energy, save for some "loophole in Faraday's argument" which I don't fully understand (the loophole, not the argument).

 

Whereas this hijacked thread was created to discuss what -- apparently -- looks like free energy, save for some "loophole in Faraday's argument" which I don't fully understand (the loophole, not the argument).

In which sense does it look like "free energy"?

It is NOT free in the sense of energy being created from nothing. It is still a transformation of energy from one form to another.

It IS free in the same sense that a water wheel in a stream produces "free" energy since we let the normal processes of the planet continually make transformable energy available to our generator.

 

In which sense does it look like "free energy"?

It is NOT free in the sense of energy being created from nothing. It is still a transformation of energy from one form to another.

It IS free in the same sense that a water wheel in a stream produces "free" energy since we let the normal processes of the planet continually make transformable energy available to our generator.

I know it is not free energy -- that would be impossible. It "looks like" free energy since the conductor is moving along with the field. But there is some "loophole in Faraday's argument" (according to the video) that allows the configuration to extract energy from Earth's magnetic field -- as long as the conductor is a tube and not solid.

I'm not looking for an argument. I also didn't expect the peanut gallery to go off on "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" in a way completely divorced from the original post.

But I really don't care -- either way.

 

I know it is not free energy -- that would be impossible. It "looks like" free energy since the conductor is moving along with the field. But there is some "loophole in Faraday's argument" (according to the video) that allows the configuration to extract energy from Earth's magnetic field -- as long as the conductor is a tube and not solid.

I'm not looking for an argument. I also didn't expect the peanut gallery to go off on "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" in a way completely divorced from the original post.

But I really don't care -- either way.

Free as in beer. For pure science it's a cool idea but totally impractical for a usable device as a replacement energy source. A hand-cranked radio would be better. As was said before, one person in my backyard over the fence picking a cherry is OK (with my approval as in not caring much) but bus loads of people is not.

 

Nice looking cherry tree you have there!

I know, further thread drift.

 

Nice looking cherry tree you have there!

I know, further thread drift.

People seem to hung up with calling it stealing. So taking a few cherries vs the whole tree was the point.

Smart guys rounding off Penny fractions on many large transactions to their personal accounts have been charged and convicted of stealing. It's usually about the scales of stealing, not the act of stealing in these sorts of cases that makes the difference in actual lawlessness.

 

People seem to hung up with calling it stealing. So taking a few cherries vs the whole tree was the point.

Smart guys rounding off Penny fractions on many large transactions to their personal accounts have been charged and convicted of stealing. It's usually about the scales of stealing, not the act of stealing in these sorts of cases that makes the difference in actual lawlessness.

I used the term stealing not as in taking something without paying for it, but in the more technical sense of whether you affect what you are taking it from. For instance, when we use a solar panel to generate electricity, we are "stealing" energy from the sun, but have we affected the sun in any way? Did it somehow have to fuse more hydrogen because we did so?

 

I used the term stealing not as in taking something without paying for it, but in the more technical sense of whether you affect what you are taking it from. For instance, when we use a solar panel to generate electricity, we are "stealing" energy from the sun, but have we affected the sun in any way? Did it somehow have to fuse more hydrogen because we did so?

That's called using available 'free' resources with solar panels, the interaction on earth with the fusion reaction on the sun is zero. The available energy resource might be free but the implementation cost of capture and utilization is not.

Yes, you do affect the utility transmission line in a small way. The movement of that extra captured real energy will be replaced instead of just remaining in the reactive field (some reactive energy of that is dissipated with normal real loads in the easement space). With the additional drain of the 'real' captured energy, you will have a small extra loss from the phase wires the is being supplied from generation. It's like added an extra coil on a a TV transformer core in your house, and some unknown and nonpaying person was pulling a small amount of 'real' energy from that extra coil. That extra bit of 'real' energy is not 'free' and you wouldn't like it if the extra tapped energy, on the house side of your utility meter, paid by you, was supplying some homeless guy on the sidewalk in from of your house without your expressed permission.

 

That's called using available 'free' resources with solar panels, the interaction on earth with the fusion reaction on the sun is zero. The available energy resource might be free but the implementation cost of capture and utilization is not.

Yes, you do affect the utility transmission line in a small way. The movement of that extra captured real energy will be replaced instead of just remaining in the reactive field (some reactive energy of that is dissipated with normal real loads in the easement space). With the additional drain of the 'real' captured energy, you will have a small extra loss from the phase wires the is being supplied from generation. It's like added an extra coil on a a TV transformer core in your house, and some unknown and nonpaying person was pulling a small amount of 'real' energy from that extra coil. That extra bit of 'real' energy is not 'free' and you wouldn't like it if the extra tapped energy, on the house side of your utility meter, paid by you, was supplying some homeless guy on the sidewalk in from of your house without your expressed permission.

Again, I am NOT talking about who is paying for anything! I am not talking about money at all -- in any shape or form.

If I am coupled closely to the transmission lines, my drawing power from it affects the transmission. It might be small and hard to measure, but it does affect it. But as I decouple the two more and more, at what point is the source no longer affected by the receiver? At some point things have transitioned from being a transformer-like interaction to being a purely one-way transmitter-receiver interaction.

When I use a crystal receiver to listen to an AM station, all of the energy that is in the signal I am listening to comes from the transmitter. But, if I am a hundred miles away, is it even theoretically possible for the fact that I am extracting energy from the radiated signal to be detected? Does it have any effect, at all, on the transmitter? Or, like the sun, is it a case of zero feedback coupling and that once that energy is radiated beyond some distance, that it is simply gone as far as the transmitter is concerned and whether or not some device in the next county or the next solar system manages to transform and utilize that energy in some way is nonsensible at the transmitter?