I just have a bad feeling about this.
How is the business man supposed to come to you? Read your mind for having a design that can make his business a profit? I don't get it either.
Are you supposed to come to work wearing a shirt that says, "Strantor efficiency corrector, ask me about it."?
Are you supposed to already have it built and marketed it so your business man will notice that it is available and instinctively know that you are looking for someone to build and market your device?
I bet you can tell I've never done this.

 

I just have a bad feeling about this.
How is the business man supposed to come to you? Read your mind for having a design that can make his business a profit? I don't get it either.
Are you supposed to come to work wearing a shirt that says, "Strantor efficiency corrector, ask me about it."?
Are you supposed to already have it built and marketed it so your business man will notice that it is available and instinctively know that you are looking for someone to build and market your device?
I bet you can tell I've never done this.

e.g. So, error on the side of safety, only if the product is worthy.

ROI, is the only way to know, if you don't think it's capable of making a 500% profit per unit, or is capable of a return to counter on a daily, cost per unit and ROI is factoring the cost of marketing, per unit.

Knowing ahead of time, may say it's not worth it. The owner will know that, don't be surprised when he say's it's not, maybe your lucky and he say's well I think we can make money.

He may be clueless and throw in with you? Most won't.

I don't know what you have? I don't want to know. I'm just saying.

kv

 

e.g. So, error on the side of safety, only if the product is worthy.

ROI, is the only way to know, if you don't think it's capable of making a 500% profit per unit, or is capable of a return to counter on a daily, cost per unit and ROI is factoring the cost of marketing, per unit.

And it has to make the profit for you in the three to six months it takes some pacific rim company to rip it off and start making the schlock version....

 

... He has a history of being very generous towards employees and being fair. He strives to make this a place where people WANT to work. So, at the risk of being naive, I tend to think that he would not go out of his way to screw me over.

OK, maybe "screwed" is a bit excessive a term. BUT, a business owner is successful because he makes decisions that make the most for him and his company.

It's likely you, with not much business experience (and minimum protection) will put him in a position where the choice is; A. He makes more money and you make little to none, or B. He makes less money and gives you a lot.

He will be an expert at seeing that choice, and identifying whatever power he has to swing that his way (to choice A).

...
But my main goal is just to see people using goods that I designed. That would make me happy. And I would like to make some money at it as well. The link I referenced above mentions 5%; you mention 10%. I'll go with 5%. If my invention turns out to be a million dollar idea, that's $50,000 that I didn't have before, and probably $50,000 that I never would have made on my own. I would be happy with that.
...

You have not designed many products that made $50k huh.

A hard nosed businessman would quickly identify a third option; Pay one of his mates $5 or $10k as a one-off payment, to design the same product you showed to him. Now he owns it completely, has total power and can keep every cent of the profit.

Nothing will save you from that, you don't have the money to patent nor do you have the money to pursue legal action to a conclusion where you benefit. And that applies even with some other proof it was your idea. Don't think any NDA will be worth a damn for the same reasons.

The only power you can have is to have total control of the product, design it, make it, and when it is desireable they HAVE to buy it from you, under your terms. I think that is exactly what Don Lancaster meant with "They must come to you". You can approach them to get a deal, but "they must come to you" as the only way for them to get the product or service. That is the ONLY thing that gives you power in this.

 

I haven't said anything yet because I'm trying to resist impulse decision.

The only power you can have is to have total control of the product, design it, make it, and when it is desireable they HAVE to buy it from you, under your terms.

That's another option I'm considering. I just go ahead and make the stuff and try to sell it on my own. Give that a shot first. Then later if it's too much trouble trying to sell it, I can bring the boss in. At that point I might be able to command a larger cut, since it'll be an easier sell; an actual product with actual sales instead puff of dream vapor. One of my gadgets already falls in this category (grand total of three units sold !).

 

It's really all about Marketing, you can either sell a few somethings at the coveted 500% profit and use the money to self capitulate or to have someone with deep pockets with you, having the knowledge, skill, and talent to "Make, Market, and Sell for you"

It's like back when you wanted a credit card, with no credit. Catch 22.

 

The part in red. To get 'them' to come to you you need to establish yourself in a particular area of expertise. Lancaster mentions this in terms of freely publishing your ideas. You don't make any money off of a single idea, but off a steady stream of new ideas that are so compelling that -- "they come to you".

That is acting like a businessman, and not like an inventor.

 

Read this a little bit ago ... http://business.time.com/2013/09/24/the-crowdfunding-economy-is-about-to-pop/?goback=%2Egde_4308301_member_276422629#%21

Crowdfunding ...

 

...at the coveted 500% profit...

500%??? I think times have changed a bit. At least in consumer markets.

Generally, one should take a loss with each item he sells, but make it up through volume...

 

Read this a little bit ago ... http://business.time.com/2013/09/24/the-crowdfunding-economy-is-about-to-pop/?goback=%2Egde_4308301_member_276422629#%21

Crowdfunding ...

...and now begins a new strantor research tangent. Thank you.

 

I would say just go for it. Approach him with your idea. Even if he does 'screw' you over (which judging from your posts seems unlikely), at least you can say "been there, done that."

Life's too short for what if's, and buts.

YOLO.

 

After excessive waffling back and forth, I finally decided to talk to him yesterday. He seemed interested in one of the ideas. He asked for more information about the device. While he seemed interested, he also seemed taken aback, and on unsure ground. This is only the second time anyone come to him with an engineering idea for a discrete device, and the first time was a disaster; cost the company a huge account and a great deal of money. Heartache all around. So he is cautious. But he did acknowledge that the idea came before my employment and that if we proceed, I will be compensated, but he doesn't know how or how much, since in his only prior experience, the design was IP of the company, designed by an employed engineer, for the company.

 

After excessive waffling back and forth, I finally decided to talk to him yesterday. He seemed interested in one of the ideas. He asked for more information about the device. While he seemed interested, he also seemed taken aback, and on unsure ground. This is only the second time anyone come to him with an engineering idea for a discrete device, and the first time was a disaster; cost the company a huge account and a great deal of money. Heartache all around. So he is cautious. But he did acknowledge that the idea came before my employment and that if we proceed, I will be compensated, but he doesn't know how or how much, since in his only prior experience, the design was IP of the company, designed by an employed engineer, for the company.

30years ago I came up with an Idea, I had to hire someone to build it. I was lucky to have a young engineer living in one of my Apartments. It was simple, a Leak and Lint detector, it could drive a 15amp recovery pump or whatever if water was sensed. I built 50 units, locally manufactured for $500.00. Cheap for test marketing.

Doing it myself, I learned so much. But, I would have gotten a lot more experience had I worked with someone who ran a company.

Good Luck Man, I wish only the best for you.

Edit: Oh, and it didn't go anywhere, regular people didn't want or need it, the lint detector side, was to warn of lint accumulation in your dryer or refrigerator. The leak detector, under dishwashers, washers, etc. was kind of good but, Insurance company's didn't care e.g. people either, they would rather deal with a disaster at the time, rather than plan for one.

Commercial use wouldn't go either, they have maintenance schedules that take care of that. :WINK:

 

strantor,

Good to hear you had a positive reception for your idea. Now you could prototype it for your boss and then sales, to get the buzz out for potential clients. Also the prototype will give your employer the approximate time and costs for the product so they can effectively price and market it.

If the manufacturing time isn't outrageous, the pieces could be "as needed" to maintain a very low on hand inventory.

Personally, I hope your idea takes off and keeps you and whoever busy building them to satisfy a great demand.

Best wishes on your future endeavors.

 

strantor,

Good to hear you had a positive reception for your idea. Now you could prototype it for your boss and then sales, to get the buzz out for potential clients. Also the prototype will give your employer the approximate time and costs for the product so they can effectively price and market it.

If the manufacturing time isn't outrageous, the pieces could be "as needed" to maintain a very low on hand inventory.

Personally, I hope your idea takes off and keeps you and whoever busy building them to satisfy a great demand.

Best wishes on your future endeavors.

The time to assemble it in the past was very lengthy, all done at home by crude methods. PCBs chemically etched with ferric chloride one at a time after toner transfer with a clothes iron with <75% success rate, 100+ thru-holes drilled one at a time on the drill press, vias soldered one at a time with surplus component legs, etc; you know, the hobbyist way. If building more than probably 6 or 7, it would probably be cost/time effective even for me, just to have them made by a PCB house. And if we're going to have the boards made out-of-house, then might was well go the distance and have the components placed PNP style.

I will probably end up making a prototype or two again by the same methods; I'm sure they'll want a working model to poke & prod, QA/QC. I imagine they'll test it very thoroughly after what happened last time.

The cost is actually kinda high; one of the discrete components costs ~$150 just by itself!

 

The PCB manufacturer could be contracted out with the various companies. They are getting inexpensive these days. So their turnaround time and cost would help.

That would give your prototype a better look, and if the proposal is successful, the turnaround time for PCB's would only delay subsequent orders. After all, if the board costs 20 bucks each for 10, that's a small inventory investment that doesn't consume a lot of space.

I would look into that route ...

Your building the prototype and investing the time and money will show your employer something. It shows you are willing to take some of the risks for common profits.