# Interesting Transformer design aspects, work in progress anyone know if anything like this is Patented?

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
Hi there guyz

{this will be in plain English as most possible for clarity}

These induction aspects Seem obvious to the veterans but if it hasn’t already been claimed I’d like to call this the ‘AtarLC fallout’ thought experiment or just the ‘fallout’ thought experiment because it certainly made me the uninitiated learner think about different aspects.

I’ve been studying LC resonance at mostly the 200hz ratio in ratio to an operating frequency of 50hz

This is the operating frequency at 1/4 the resonance LC frequency {or self resonance} of an inductor.

So to be super clear, if the your 240v outlet is 50 hz then choosing the appropriate capacitor and coupling it to the appropriate inductor based on its inductance

And based on the commonly known equation for LC resonance.

And example would be :

Say a 6 Henry inductor and about a 105nf capacitor would equal 200~hz and if your operating frequency is 50hz then that LC resonance would be at 200hz

This is also the LC resonance that is utilized to induce a {50hz} induction motor into a feedback resonance to make it generate output on a second inductor.

So I would like to share some interesting discoveries based on this so that others can study and perhaps make further discoveries.

So I wound originally two inductors onto a ferret ring core the details of the core are not really important for this explanation but it was 118x80x22
And here is a link to it
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818088023.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.21094c4d9pWKCg

So originally I wound two counter wound inductors on the ring taking up 180 degrees each so simply one inductor wound one way taking up half and the other counter wound in direction but taking up the other half
Then I connected a bridge of capacitors to the 4 inputs and outputs:

now if you want to try this simply get 4 capacitors and connect two in series and another 2 in series then connect them in parallel, in effect you have a box of capacitors, not if you have an LC meter get one of the capacitors and measure it in that configuration you will see it measures about 1.3 x the original capacity.

I.e you have 4x 1uf capacitors put them into a box as I just explained now measure one you will see it measures 1.3uf

Now simply imagine your two inductors in between the box so you have two in series at the top with the two inductors connected to the two ends of that series pair
And the out the other end of your two inductors another series pair {the bottom of the box} where the two other end of the inductors connect.

So using the example of 1.3 uf { using 1uf caps} if you want this in LC 200 if your input is 50hz the the inductors should be about 633mh inductance {more about that later}

Well I discovered that if I had a lamp on the input of my original example it was bright lit then when I configured it as such And connected the input ‘Active’ lead to the center of the two capacitors at the input and the center of the two capacitors at the output then the lamp 240v 25w was extinguished.

The interesting aspect 180 degrees out of phase at LC 200 to 50 operating.

By placing one scope probe on the input and output of the device but then place the other probe on the inside of the capacitor set on one side of the ‘transformer’ so at the input of one inductor and the at the output of the same but on the ‘inductor side’ of the capacitors then this trace was 180 degrees altered from the input trace

So it is 180 degrees out of phase from the input trace, further more this only occurs when the capacitor network is in LC 200hz resonance to the input operating frequency of 50 hz so input at 1 :4 ratio or the ‘3rd harmony’ multiple of itself

I.e
50 + 50 {1}
100 + 50 {2}
150 + 50 {3}
200

I also then wound two more devices of note here which was the two inductors not counter wound
The same result is observed with at the LC200hz resonance the trace on the inductor being 180deg out of phase
Now there are two aspects the lower the inductance and larger the external capacitor the lower the Q of the effect will be
So theoretically the best Q results would be a self resonance experiment.

So the other was a self resonance experiment when I wound a larger ring 4 of these stacked with 4 wires all simultaneously then splitting those two sets into two Tesla I.e bifilar inductors with self resonance of 200hz
I then simply connected the two inputs and output in parallel which dropped the wire resistance greatly and seemed to raise the V on a secondary that I wound onto it. It seemed like an efficient type of transformer.

But I didn’t test it comprehensively as of yet.

Hope this helps people with discoveries I’ll add pics Please don’t censor this as a sovereign human that would be illegal as I have not entered into any agreements as such with any third parties relating to being censored on this planet regards!

Last edited:

#### crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,390
Transformer efficiency is not normally a problem since power transformers are over 90% efficient at full load.

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
Transformer efficiency is not normally a problem since power transformers are over 90% efficient at full load.
Is that why I couldn’t find any Patents related to that resonance ratio and the 180 deg alternated trace i observed ?
Or am I just bad at searching for Patents ?
If it’s not Patented I’d like to people to have the information for further studies I mean it could lead to other discoveries?

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
This pic attached is the ‘capacitor bridge ‘ just explains the 1.3 ratio

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#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
This pic shows how an experimenter could observe the 180 deg out of phase trace in relation to the input .

A and b are the two inductors counter wound in this case

They are in an inductance relationship with the capacitors that should mean that the LC resonance is close to 200hz based on the 50hz frequency input

P1 shows where the probe should go and the P1 ref of that probe {red}

P2 shows where that probe and ref goes. {blue}

Regards hope it helps some experiments

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#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
Transformer efficiency is not normally a problem since power transformers are over 90% efficient at full load.
Do you have any ideas on why the trace observed would be 180 out of phase?
Seems non intuitive on first glance.

#### Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
21,221
Do you have any ideas on why the trace observed would be 180 out of phase?
Seems non intuitive on first glance.
It seems entirely intuitive that reactive components introduce it. I'm not sure why you think it matters.

#### Audioguru again

Joined Oct 21, 2019
6,687
I live in Canada where the electricity is 120VAC. A neighbour from Europe threw away a fan that was designed for 240AC so I added a series capacitor to make it series-resonate at 60Hz and it worked fine. Then its resonating voltage was about 220VAC.

K.e

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,234
The thrill of the uninitiated at finding the obvious never stops. I wish the OP happy trails.

#### OBW0549

Joined Mar 2, 2015
3,566
The thrill of the uninitiated at finding the obvious never stops.
Especially when it's been obvious for over a century...

#### Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,886
SIX HENRY? Isn't that a rather large coil? Like bigger than a house? I could be wrong but I thought a ONE HENRY coil was unrealistically big as far as experimenters go.

K.e

#### OBW0549

Joined Mar 2, 2015
3,566
SIX HENRY? Isn't that a rather large coil? Like bigger than a house? I could be wrong but I thought a ONE HENRY coil was unrealistically big as far as experimenters go.
No, not really. Somewhere in my "goodie box" is a 0.5H inductor that occupies less than half a cubic inch and weighs about 2 grams. But its winding resistance is over 1000 ohms because it's made with extremely fine wire.

It all depends on the required winding resistance and current-carrying capacity.

K.e

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
The thrill of the uninitiated at finding the obvious never stops. I wish the OP happy trails.
It was exciting for a while, then someone asked ‘is it better than sex’ and I had to think about that..

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
I live in Canada where the electricity is 120VAC. A neighbour from Europe threw away a fan that was designed for 240AC so I added a series capacitor to make it series-resonate at 60Hz and it worked fine. Then its resonating voltage was about 220VAC.
That’s interesting, but don’t you have the step down on the pole central tapped with two 120v~ outputs out of phase with each? Thus 240v ?

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
Especially when it's been obvious for over a century...
The centuries roll by and we all start somewhere.

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
G
SIX HENRY? Isn't that a rather large coil? Like bigger than a house? I could be wrong but I thought a ONE HENRY coil was unrealistically big as far as experimenters go.
Great question thanks for sharing.

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
It seems entirely intuitive that reactive components introduce it. I'm not sure why you think it matters.
It made me think and wonder about ‘forward’ and ‘backwards’ applied force in relation to inductive inertia, and then the results of that which I guess could be called ‘mutual induction’ or the B field, it certainly made me think about that.
Thanks for sharing

#### K.e

Joined May 7, 2017
81
Yeah
No, not really. Somewhere in my "goodie box" is a 0.5H inductor that occupies less than half a cubic inch and weighs about 2 grams. But its winding resistance is over 1000 ohms because it's made with extremely fine wire.

It all depends on the required winding resistance and current-carrying capacity.
I learned that the hard way by building about a half meter D inductor with scavenged fencing wire thus largely reducing its current carrying capacity I guess I was spoiled by the high ‘permeability’ devices I was using however, I learned something else by winding it with 4 simultaneous wires I.e a T4 {Tesla 4} winding in relationships between Henry and self resonance F.
It’s still now only about 2.4 H and 800hz SRF wire R is rising lol last check 78.3 R

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#### Audioguru again

Joined Oct 21, 2019
6,687
That’s interesting, but don’t you have the step down on the pole central tapped with two 120v~ outputs out of phase with each? Thus 240v ?
Only the stove and the clothes dryer have a single 240V receptacle behind them.
By tuning the LC resonance with a series capacitor then I could plug in the fan at any of the many unused 120V receptacles.

K.e