Do you guys work in office cubicles?

 

Same here in Australia, athletic performance in high school is of a fairly low importance. Schools are places for learning, and young people who want to become football stars don't do that in school, they do it in their own time after school at a football club.

Regarding high schools I think America is a bit "dumbed down".

I would say a lot bit dumbed down.

For a far too high fraction of America, academic performance is very much not a big priority. It would be interesting to see how many people would prefer a super athlete for a child versus a super academic. I suspect the results would be disappointing. That's not to say that there aren't pockets that put the major emphasis on academics. Today it is largely the Asian communities that tend to be of that mindset. A hundred years ago it was the Black communities that had the strong academic focus for their kids. I think most immigration surges have historically been accompanied by similar emphases in those communities for a decade or three. But there is the inevitable regression to the norm.

 

A smart person does not brag.

This timeless truth reminds me of an unintentionally comical character with whom I am acquainted, and who has repeated boasted about how high of an IQ score they attained when tested back in high school.

Well that person still brags about that "feat" to this day, despite having unceremoniously dropped out of college mid-stream, before embarking on a life characterized by a trail of personal bankruptcies that would make anyone cringe in dismay.

Most fascinating of all for me has been the utter and profound idiocy of the schemes this self-professed genius devises to get rich quick, most of which are based on the presentation of doctored or forged documents that wouldn't pass the scrutiny of a ten-year-old.

Truth be told, the sheer entertainment value of this person's antics consistently outweighs whatever disapproval I may feel about their chronic kleptomania and bone-headed lack of ingenuity.

 

This timeless truth reminds me of an unintentionally comical character with whom I am acquainted, and who has repeated boasted about how high of an IQ score they attained when tested back in high school.
...
Truth be told, the sheer entertainment value of this person's antics consistently outweighs whatever disapproval I may feel about their chronic kleptomania and bone-headed lack of ingenuity.

That's less about bragging and more about being a jackass.

 

This timeless truth reminds me of an unintentionally comical character with whom I am acquainted, and who has repeated boasted about how high of an IQ score they attained when tested back in high school.

Well that person still brags about that "feat" to this day, despite having unceremoniously dropped out of college mid-stream, before embarking on a life characterized by a trail of personal bankruptcies that would make anyone cringe in dismay.

Most fascinating of all for me has been the utter and profound idiocy of the schemes this self-professed genius devises to get rich quick, most of which are based on the presentation of doctored or forged documents that wouldn't pass the scrutiny of a ten-year-old.

Truth be told, the sheer entertainment value of this person's antics consistently outweighs whatever disapproval I may feel about their chronic kleptomania and bone-headed lack of ingenuity.

I'm curious, just when and where did you meet my relative?

 

A smart person does not brag.

I agree -- that's one of the overused platitudes that gets to me, too!

 

Do you guys work in office cubicles?

I do, but it's fairly open--one side is completely open rather than having a small slot for a door.

 

Do you guys work in office cubicles?

I have a cubicle, but I rarely accomplish anything that could be construed as "work" there. The voice mail message on my desk phone goes like this: "You've reached Charlie's desk; I am rarely ever at my desk and sometimes don't check my messages for days. If you need to reach me, call my cell phone at xxx-xxx-xxxx."

I did, however, type post #1 from inside my cubicle. The first time I had been back to the office in 19 days.

 

And you saiy you dont accomplish much in the cube ... you cetainly started a long discussion from those confines.

 

I work in an office cubicle too... So many distractions there between sharing the space with 2 other engineers both of which don't believe in headphones to listen to their radio, and just common every day discussion. I usually end up working down in the lab where it is usually a bit quieter... I have a couple other hiding places too. I've also gotten to the point where I don't answer as many emails as I used to... If I did - I'd just be emailing people for a living.

Anyway, back on topic...

I've been called a bragger, boastful, etc. Fine by me. I think it's mostly unfounded. I'm just trying to teach other engineers... hoping that I can give them some sort of knowledge that I've obtained through the school of hard knocks so that they don't have to go to the same school.

I really believe that many of the people that I work with (not all, but many) would not survive long in the non-corporate world. Maybe that's why I work with them in the corporate world where they can continue to be dead weight and make a good wage. I literally had a higher salaried engineer come into my office the other day and ask me how a transistor switch works. He 1) obviously didn't try to educate himself about the topic before asking the question (a pet peeve of mine) and 2) shouldn't be working on a test set for my hardware! Someone else ended up doing the work.

Better than that - I had a different engineer - who is generally regarded as an analog / power guru - critique a spec I wrote. I had an opto-isolated input signal on a card and I spec'd if for a minimum of 4kohm input impedance. He said "but you only have a 2kohm resistor in your schematic". He couldn't figure out that the opto-isolation diode and the diode-or input would add at least 2k of additional input impedance when forward biased.

This isn't to say I'm the sharpest tool in the shed, I certainly am not, but when I go to a higher salaried engineer and ask if this or that is going to work, I don't want them to look at me as if I'm speaking a different language. Something that happens quite often.

This is the reason I spend so much time here. I usually get good answers when I ask tough questions, or it at least gets me moving in the right direction. The people here are generally very knowledgeable and I know many of their designs would out perform mine.

So when I get labeled as a bragger - it's not so much that I'm bragging as I'm trying to educate others that are too dumb to educate themselves. Maybe I should quit.

Ugh, just thinking about this makes me want to put out 10 applications today. I don't know if this would be better in a smaller company or not... I'd hope so.

[edit] I don't know how that red frowny face showed up on this post - I didn't mean to do that!

 

And you saiy you dont accomplish much in the cube ... you cetainly started a long discussion from those confines.

Hey, I didn't say it was work though.

This thread was inspired by coming back to the office for the first time in a while, and catching up on the latest drama. Somebody got let go, somebody had a bone to pick with someone else, etc. Heard a guy that I regard as a wizard, referred to as a know-it-all, "who thinks his shtuff doesn't stink." Thing is, this guy really does know just about everything, and if he didn't, his educated guess would be more accurate than anybody else's. As a technician, he has been teaching engineers how to engineer since before I was born. His shtuff may stink, but the complainer in question would probably gain a couple of IQ points by wafting it into his lungs. He is top dawg and he knows it; he isnt overly boastful, but it is obvious that he enjoys his position in the hierarchy of intelligence, and considers himself "untouchable." I would say his boast level is healthy, but apparently not everyone agrees. It seems only the people who aren't smart enough to understand what comes out of his mouth, are the people who have beef.

 

It seems only the people who aren't smart enough to understand what comes out of his mouth, are the people who have beef.

Bingo! That's what I'm talking about.

 

Most fascinating of all for me has been the utter and profound idiocy of the schemes this self-professed genius devises to get rich quick

Interesting... a friend of mine, who has an extremely IQ, but makes very bad decisions. He seems to have fallen for the "refinance" scam. That's the difference between intelligent and smart. IMO, intelligence is a high IQ whereas smart is making good decisions.

I think he's so intelligent, that he outsmarts himself.

 

...
So when I get labeled as a bragger - it's not so much that I'm bragging as I'm trying to educate others that are too dumb to educate themselves. Maybe I should quit.
...

People with less ability NEED to get help from those with a higher ability, but they don't LIKE to get that help.

It's completely their problem, not yours.

Someone with a decent personality won't mind at all that you are smarter than them. Just like someone with a decent personality won't mind that their friend is richer than them.

The ones that get bent out of shape about someone being superior to them are real losers, and you don't have to give a damn about the opinions of real losers who have a chip on their shoulder. They are still going to have a chip on their shoulder about SOMETHING no matter how you act.

Back to what I said before; bragging is 90% in the eye of the beholder. Especially when the beholder has a personality problem.

 

Compared to the average person, like your nearest 1000 neighbors, we are all big fish in the electronics pond, but I never tell anyone that I do electronics. I just tell them that everyone has talents, and theirs are merely different from mine. That let's everyone think they are, "special" even if their specialty is being a left handed cat lover that thinks she is an artist.

I don't want anybody to challenge me to prove I'm smart and I don't need the requests for free electrical repairs.

 

I keep my IQ hidden. And for good reason!

If my friend only knew that the strobe lite I fixed for him took 8hrs. He would not be impressed.

I'm not smart, but I am stubborn. Into my 3rd week on a tv repair.

 

Our perceptions of others related to intelligence, being smart or wise, it is strongly related to our personal idea of what intelligence is.

It is simple to prove: ask 10 people around what intelligence is and you will see the variations. Even the weirdest, I suspect, they all will be valid.

 

Just my humble opinions

Is boasting bad? I think conservative values would say so, but I also think most people, conservative or not, indulge in their own way to some extent. It seems common or even encouraged to boast about obvious abilities.

It depends on what values we are taking reference to. You have said it. Conservative values would say so. But liberals may not much.

Similarly, in a room of people, say a classroom or an office, you can look around and see who the strongest person in the room is. If this room full of people got bored and someone proposed an arm wrestling competition to kill time, nobody would be surprised when the big guy wins, and when he wins, probably nobody would take it the wrong way if he did a little celebratory touchdown dance in jest. Let's say a 200Lb Xerox machine needed to be moved across the room and set on a pedestal, and the big guy spoke up in a friendly manner; "I'm the strongest here, I'll take care of it," would anybody disagree or have their ego damaged? I doubt it

I assume "anybody" refers to ordinary people who has ordinary strength. Suppose you are in a military academy, and you said you're the bravest person. Now ask "would anybody disagree or have their ego damaged? I doubt it". I don't doubt that there will be someone who will disagree or have their ego damaged.

You are comparing two persons (or a person and a group of people) whose difference in ability (in this case, strength) is very big...

By the way, by "strongest person in the room", I assume the "second strongest person in the room" has a large difference to the strongest. That is, for example the strongest has strength 95 and the second only have 60.

But let's say the second has 94. Now you ask " would anybody disagree or have their ego damaged? I doubt it". I don't doubt it. The difference is only 1, that's very small, almost negligibe. So the second might get hurt or have his ego damaged.

Now, can we be any stronger? That is if we have 94 strength, can we train and make it higher so we can make it 96. Then if not, then the strongest person mentioned above have the bragging right to say he is the strongest. But if strength is dynamic in the sense that it can change, then he has none. Because the second has 94 and the difference is only 95. We know in the real world, a small change could be caused by measurement errors. That's almost negligibe.

Going back to our room full of people, if someone stood up and said "I'm the smartest person in the room; I'll tackle the complex feat of engineering," I'm sure the class would be unified in ostracizing whoever said that. People get their feelings hurt when you assert that you are smarter than them. They replace the idea of smarter, with better. "Oh, so you think you're better than me?"

The mere fact that they are all enginering students proved that somehow all of the students in that class have something in their mind. Meaning they are all intelligent. So of course, if someone said "I'm the smartest person in the room; I'll tackle the complex feat of engineering,", someone would get hurt. Because everybody in the class knows to themeselves that they are intelligent. I'm assuming the grades of the students are fluctuating, that is the top 1 is not always top 1. But if top 1 is consistent,I believe, other students' ego may not be hurt. Especially if the difference between top 1's score (the one who boasted he is the most intelligent) to top 2 is very big.

Again, suppose you are in a grade school class and you're always the top 1, and the top 2 has an IQ that has a big difference to yours. (Let's say you have 95 and the second has 80) and you said "im the smartest person in the room" of course none may have their ego hurt. But they may say that you're arrogant, but that's it, that's criticism. Their ego's not hurt but it's just that they feel that you're arrogant.

Why? Why the special exception for smarter? Would a young woman, upon hearing the big guy's offer to move the Xerox machine, ask "Oh, so you think you're better than me?" No! Nobody construes what he said, because an assertion of strength isn't often confused with an assertion of superiority. But intelligence is.

Hmmm, other attirubutes is often perceived to be static, that is they don't change. Like singing , dancing. That is if you're good at dancing, then you will always be. while intelligence is very vast, and perceived to be always changing. That is if you're not good now, who knows you may be better tomorrow? So it is not so easy to deny your ability in atrributes that are static, usually physical... But intelligence, you may always rationalize.........

Just because someone thinks (or knows) that they are smarter than someone else, does not mean that they think they are superior to that person. Intelligence is an attribute, just like height, skin color, bench press max, 100M dash time, visual acuity, clap speed, and how fast one can talk a woman into bed. It is a real attribute, but it seems to have been targeted by the general populace for inclusion into the Handicapper General's Laws of Equality. Nobody is allowed to be smarter than anyone else, unless you win the Nobel Prize in Physics. Then you can brag. But if not, you're no smarter than the next guy.

I understand half of the problem. I understand why people have trouble identifying who is smarter. It's only obvious to the smarter person. Imagine being an adult in a room full of 7 year olds. The 7 year olds see everybody the same, but you, being an adult, are acutely aware of the fact that you're the only person in the room who has the foresight to pee before you leave the house or pay the credit card bill before the end of the month.

Unless you are going to force everybody in your vicinity to submit to an IQ test and then throw your IQ score in their faces, you will just have to accept the fact that you won't always be given due credit for your standing in the hierarchy of intelligence.

The half that I don't understand is why every attempt one makes to affirm their own intelligence is perceived as an attempt to degrade someone else's, and why that perceived degradation is construed to be on the grounds of something more than a simple attribute - more, to the point of being on the grounds of one's value as a human being.

Intelligence is very vast. If you say you're intelligent, at what? I believe it is more than "intelligence itself" but rather on how subjects are perceived to be more higher than others. I mean, if you're intelligent at physics and your peer is equally intelligent at English literature, and you say you're more intelligent, it's not in how much you know your respective subjects that someone will get hurt but on how the two subjects are considered weigher than the other. So English intelligent man may get hurt if the Physics intelligent man said that he is more intelligent because here English literature is considered lower compare to Physics, remember the subjects not the intelligence or the information itself..

Just my opinion. Sorry if I don't speak concise. I sometimes have problem communicating.


-Lightfire

 

Wow lightfire, your English has come a long way since you first came here, and you now write better than an unknown, but appreciable portion, of native English speakers. Your apologies and disclaimers about being a non-native speaker and/or having trouble communicating are no longer needed. If anyone cannot understand you, the problem probably lies with them

 

I'm assuming the grades of the students are fluctuating, that is the top 1 is not always top 1. But if top 1 is consistent,I believe, other students' ego may not be hurt. Especially if the difference between top 1's score (the one who boasted he is the most intelligent) to top 2 is very big.

I can recall having been in a few situations like that where I got pulled aside by a professor who knew me well enough just for them to ask me why I am not #1 in the class despite my clearly proving it in day to day work.

I have always told them that to be #1 is too easy for me and I know I can prove it at any time but there are others who put a huge amount of time and work into trying to be at my knowledge level so I let them have the #1 position.
I don't have to work to be there so not getting credit for being #1 doesn't bother me. If I worked my butt off day after day to get that position I would be upset if I didn't hold the title.

Besides seriously when you are known for being #1 at something everyone expects you to perform a that level and challenges you all the time and that's just too much work for me.