If we need to start to make the IC ,what should I start with

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,333
The TS asks: "what could I do from the beginning to the end? " I already described the first portion in post #7, and that section did not even get to the hardware fabrication part.

So why does the Thread Starter believe that producing an integrated circuit starts with the mechanical portions??? And that You Tube video is a total misrepresentation, and a total falsehood. They have assembled a few components inside an IC shell. THAT IS NOT AN INTEGRATED CIRCUIT BY CURRENT DEFINITIONS.

If you want to create a specific logic function, you can do that with either a PLD (Programmable Logic Device, or an FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array). Those are real families of devices that do allow creating custom designed functions.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,333
Do you suppose that we offended them by explaining that it is much more complex than what they saw on the yootoob cartoon video? Was my calling the video a lie offensive?? Certainly I was rather harsh, but representing that a small soldered circuit in an IC shell is an IC is what I would call a gross lie.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,333
Certainly creating the design for an IC is a major undertaking with a whole lot of expertise required just for the circuit. Then developing the layout to bring the circuit to reality is also an incredibly huge task. For small linear circuits it is still a big effort to get it right and have an adequate production yield.
So where do folks get the idea that it is simple???
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,820
Certainly creating the design for an IC is a major undertaking with a whole lot of expertise required just for the circuit. Then developing the layout to bring the circuit to reality is also an incredibly huge task. For small linear circuits it is still a big effort to get it right and have an adequate production yield.
So where do folks get the idea that it is simple???
Like I said earlier, I would like an accurate interpretation of what the op's final aim is and what exactly does he have to control??
There may be a myriad of ways to achieve what is needed if we only knew??
We may never know! :confused:
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,333
Like I said earlier, I would like an accurate interpretation of what the op's final aim is and what exactly does he have to control??
There may be a myriad of ways to achieve what is needed if we only knew??
We may never know! :confused:
The number of different IC devices is incredible! Aside from the large variety from the major producers there are an incredible number of specialty producers.
Besides that, I have discovered that there are quite a few programmable ANALOG LINEAR IC devices, although I have not investigated any of them. Twenty years ago they filled a huge book the EE MASTER, about 2000 pages that described the ones available at the time.
 

Thread Starter

davidzhao

Joined Apr 2, 2024
17
Are you talking about trying to do this as a hobbyist, or actually building a commercially viable manufacturing facility?

There are people who have constructed very crude, very low density ICs at home, but it is far from practical by any measure.

If you are talking about designing a custom IC yourself, the only practical way to do it is use a FAB that makes custom ICs as a business.
So how about I start with the package and testing business first with some second hard machines?I have some for the business.And try to do the research at the moment.
 
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Thread Starter

davidzhao

Joined Apr 2, 2024
17
Thank you all for your advise.

So I need first make a workshop with high clean requirement room,and then input some second hard die sorting ,die attach ,auto molding system machine ,final testing machine and then start the business.Is it?
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,333
As with most projects that involve producing things, the first step is to have a plan for what you intend to produce. That is certainly true with electronic devices, just like preparing a meal. The very first step is to decide what you will make.
It is exactly the same for integrated circuits. FIRST decide what the ones that you make will do. Then decide how it will do it. Then you are ready to start to design the circuit.

If you were going to build a car, would you start with getting the painting equipment going before you cut any metal??
The very last thing in producing integrated circuits is the machines.
 

dl324

Joined Mar 30, 2015
17,093
So I need first make a workshop with high clean requirement room,and then input some second hard die sorting ,die attach ,auto molding system machine ,final testing machine and then start the business.Is it?
You need to have a target process/node first. That will dictate what machines you need.

The big boys spend billions to build a fab.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
21,292
I don't think $20E06 is going to cut it. My guess is that a functioning fab with current technology is $10-12E09 proposition. There is very little point, outside of a vanity project, in buying 2nd hand equipment for 1-2 decade old technology.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,333
It looks to me like there is a total lack of understanding anything about producing any kind of electronic devices. In addition, there is evidently a belief that the equipment comes complete and ready to start production.

It may be that the concept of needing to create a design is not understood by the TS. Much like starting to drive nails before having an idea as to how to build a house.

So I ask the original poster as to what sort of integrated circuit they propose to produce? What will be the function of the product??
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
21,292
It looks to me like there is a total lack of understanding anything about producing any kind of electronic devices. In addition, there is evidently a belief that the equipment comes complete and ready to start production.

It may be that the concept of needing to create a design is not understood by the TS. Much like starting to drive nails before having an idea as to how to build a house.

So I ask the original poster as to what sort of integrated circuit they propose to produce? What will be the function of the product??
I'd be willing to wager modest sums that he has no earthly idea about any of that.
 

Thread Starter

davidzhao

Joined Apr 2, 2024
17
I'd be willing to wager modest sums that he has no earthly idea about any of that.
First ,I will start with a QFN and QFP package IC from the wafer to testing,if there is someone who could give me an idea of how much I need to find the investigate,that will be great appreciated.
 

Thread Starter

davidzhao

Joined Apr 2, 2024
17
I have consulted some machines from a company for the auto molding system company.And will buy some second hand testing machines for the processing of molding and testing,but for the die sorting and die attachment ,and die bonding,I did not have any idea.For the clean room,I have also consulting at the same.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,333
THis appears to be an entirely different situation. Putting dies into a housing is one of the last steps of IC production.

That is not even close to what we understood from post#1. Not at all the same!!!
 
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