If we need to start to make the IC ,what should I start with

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davidzhao

Joined Apr 2, 2024
17
There is so many different machine,if I have a small test requirement to make the IC,what could I do from the beginning to the end?
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
14,370
I want to know which I should start with in the beginning for investigating.
You need to start with a way of processing sand to extract silica, then purify the silica, then extract ultra pure silicon from the silica. That will already be costing you $millions.
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
9,116
Are you talking about trying to do this as a hobbyist, or actually building a commercially viable manufacturing facility?

There are people who have constructed very crude, very low density ICs at home, but it is far from practical by any measure.

If you are talking about designing a custom IC yourself, the only practical way to do it is use a FAB that makes custom ICs as a business.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,928
The very first steps do not require any production machinery at all. The very first step in the sequence is to determine the functional requirements and capabilities. Before even starting on the circuit, what it has to do MUST be decided. That is basic to the creation of any design. After that has been decided, then a circuit can be designed and assembled to provide that functionality. At this point the specific technology needs to be selected.
Then an overall die layout must be created, followed by the creation of layouts for each of the layers of masking and vapor deposition. After all of those are verified to be correct there is the creation of the photo-masks used for the actual production of the ICs.
At this point you need to find a production organization that is willing to produce the part. You will not be able to do it yourself, because of the cost and expertise required for production. The others have UNDERSTATED how much that actually costs. So there will be contracts to negotiate and agreements to be made. At that point actual production can start..

My point is that a great deal of effort, expertise, and work is required before any physical steps can be taken.
Producing a single transistor is a vastly simpler task, but that would be a rather old-technology device similar to what was available in the 1965 era.
 

timm27

Joined Dec 11, 2020
13
There is so many different machine,if I have a small test requirement to make the IC,what could I do from the beginning to the end?
First off, you need to describe the precise functionality of the circuit you want to make. You will now have a better idea of what you are trying to achieve. If feasible you now might want to build a circuit prototype with discrete components. Next you need to decide the process technology that you will use for your circuit. If this is a commercial technology you will need to acquire the design tools available for the process. This will enable you to build a model of your product and will let you investigate the performance you should be able to achieve.

You will then be able to contract with a fab shop (one that implements your chosen process technology) to build your IC. The IC will be built on (probably silicon) slices and there will probably be a minimum order quantity. When you get the slices back you will need to test all the devices and might get a yield of 10 - 90% of the devices on each slice. You will need a test system and a prober to do this. The slices can then be cut into dies, mounted on headers and bonded to component frames. You now have some IC, which probably will work, but the design might need to be tweaked to reach your design requirements. Now you modify your design and send the modified design back through the process. Of course each time you do this you will have to give the fab shop some money (quite a lot, most probably!).

Designing ICs requires deep pockets and only a few companies can afford to do it. This is also the reason that many ICs have remained unchanged for years, or tens of years!
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,855
To make the IC??? May tell how it was done at soviet epoch, named "adaptation" for IC. Just the moscovian Alpha concern having 4 factories in Latvia in the Ķengaraga street premises named Invertors took the russian spies stolen IC from Americans, put on the table of my course-mate father table, who in the highest possible accuracy about 1/2 of micron sliffed off the body and every time made the high resolution photo under microscope. Thus, after some 5000 or more photos the body was weared to nil and then was queue for large constructor buereau, what placed the layers together and tried reverse engineering to undestand how this IC works. Lately it was put on the epitaxy machinery at both Alpha-Brivibas street premises having about 10 000 workers clapping that circuits day and night under some russian "generic" name and Gulbene Mitrāns premises. All the concern exploited about 100 such plants wholeover the soviets thus the scale was impressive indeed. Do You really feel ready for so dramatic efforts in lifetime length instead to just pay the few cents buying the right IC in the shop??
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,928
The machinery is only part of the effort. It is obvious that the TS has no clue about the design process and the creation of all the masks required to produce one IC..
And the explanation of how the Russian group stole technology from others shows that even with bypassing the design stage by stealing from others still does not help a whole lot.
 

panic mode

Joined Oct 10, 2011
2,793
agreed, may not be easy but you can do pretty much anything you set your mind to... probably start by making specs and crunching some numbers to see what you are really getting into. then try to find some like minded people and sponsors
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,928
So now I am wondering what sort of function these folks believe that they need to create that is not already available. Some functions are not multiple sourced, but really, there are so many definite purpose ICs around that I very much doubt that there is a function that is not already available.
Of course one does need to do a bit of research, and certainly there are lots of devices not found on amazon or similar sites. But that is because they are sold by honest companies that provide adequate and accurate information. Also, there are quite a few companies that have lines of ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuits) products that do not advertise very much,
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,758
So far all posters seem to assume the OP wants to actually make an IC. ?
English does not appear to be his 1st language, if so, maybe it means put a circuit together or program a Pic etc?? :confused:
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,928
If they were able to read and understand my explanation in post #7 they would see that there is a whole lot involved. And that "whole lot" is probably an area that they are so totally unfamiliar with that it is considered unimportant. I have had to deal with folks like that in the past.
 
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dl324

Joined Mar 30, 2015
16,988
There is so many different machine,if I have a small test requirement to make the IC,what could I do from the beginning to the end?
If you need tightly controlled specifications and more than a few devices, you will face many obstacles. The equipment is specialized, processing temperatures are high, and dangerous chemicals are required.

At least you don't have to use sand to make your own silicon wafers. You can buy those.

I saw a YouTube video of someone who made transistors in their garage, but there was no information given on specifications or repeatability. And you could see the transistors, so feature sizes were representative of technology from 50+ years ago.

State of the art equipment can count the number ions used for implanting/doping, control oxide thickness and depositions by a small number of Angstroms. You'll have to use aluminum for wires because copper contamination is a huge problem.
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
9,116
So far all posters seem to assume the OP wants to actually make an IC. ?
English does not appear to be his 1st language, if so, maybe it means put a circuit together or program a Pic etc?? :confused:
Well, I program PICs and do not have “so many machines,” as mentioned in the OP.
 

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
3,128
I want to know which I should start with in the beginning for investigating.
If I know what you want the IC to do it would help. There might be a part that does most of what you want.
I have made FPGA ICs which do digital tasks. Then later used that information to make custom ICs.
I have seen engineers that use PSOC family of microcontrollers to make analog field programable ICs.
There are a number of options for custom ICs that are not fully custom.
Below is a picture of a PSOC IC. Inside there is a microcomputer and many building blocks that you get to ware up how you want.
1712169360937.png
 
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