I agree... I think it's better to stick to the Harvey subject.

My personal question now is: Is this worse than Katrina? I'm under the impression that fatalities are not as high as they were back then, but the economic impact is going to be much, much worse.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/har...e-harvey-drastically-lower-death-toll-katrina

You're absolutely right.
Katrina killed more because they had less advanced notice, less social media, and because their infrastructure didn't support getting people to safer places fast enough. If this hurricane had happened a decade or more ago, we probably would have had as many fatalities as Katrina or more. This will be the new record for most expensive storm.

 

Define "worse".
Worse for uninsured people with property damaged by catrina.
Better for anyone supplying materials, repairing assets, housing the displaced, ...

While a disaster will be a boom to those who mitigate the disaster, there will definitely be a huge net loss to the economy. You can't claim there's any economic benefit to rebuilding something that's already been there and was functioning prior to the hurricane.

Furthermore, most of the mitigation/rebuilding will be paid by FEMA and other state and federal agencies who are already running huge deficits. The federal government already has a $14 Trillion debt and it's not better for anyone to increase the mortgage on the country.

 

While a disaster will be a boom to those who mitigate the disaster, there will definitely be a huge net loss to the economy. You can't claim there's any benefit to rebuilding something that's already been there and functioning. Furthermore, most of the mitigation/rebuilding will be paid by FEMA and other state and federal agencies who are already running huge deficits. The federal government already has a $14 Trillion debt and it's not better for anyone to increase the mortgage on the country.

I see people making a profit, it is good for them. I see people who have lost a bunch of stuff and a house- it was bad for them. I think everyone can agree with that.

Now, a statement like, "there will definitely be a huge net loss to the economy" needs some definition. An economic loss I could understand, someone lost stuff. But what is a "loss to the economy". For example, How did someone's old couch that got wet contribute to the economy before the flood and create "a loss to the economy" after the flood? I would argue that it contributed to the economy if the couch was replaced, and no impact to the economy of the owner decided to throw it away and sit on the floor instead.

 

I see people making a profit, it is good for them. I see people who have lost a bunch of stuff and a house- it was bad for them. I think everyone can agree with that.

Now, a statement like, "there will definitely be a huge net loss to the economy" needs some definition. An economic loss I could understand, someone lost stuff. But what is a "loss to the economy". For example, How did someone's old couch that got wet contribute to the economy before the flood and create "a loss to the economy" after the flood? I would argue that it contributed to the economy.

A ruined couch (and an entire home) is an economic loss to its owner who most likely will have to spend part of his/her assets to replace it. A reduction of the assets (and also the quality & productivity of the lives) of 1000s of people is definitely a loss to the economy and there's no way in hell anyone can make the argument there's anything good about it.

Please, let's not use "Orwellian" reasoning in an attempt to claim that something that's horribly bad is actually a good thing.

 

Topic is the hurricane, gentlemen.

 

A ruined couch is an economic loss to its owner who most likely will have to spend part of his/her assets to replace it. A reduction of the assets (and the lives) of 1000s of people is definitely a loss to the economy and there's nothing good about it.

Please, let's not use "Orwellian" reasoning in an attempt to claim that something that's horribly bad is actually a good thing.

Glenn, you're making interesting points. But why don't you open a new thread? Heck, I'm willing to participate!

 

Glenn, you're making interesting points. But why don't you open a new thread? Heck, I'm willing to participate!

Good idea!!!
A discussion of socio-economic issues will definitely catch fire a lot faster than natural disasters.

And here in California, there's a lot of issues to burn (no pun intended) !!!

 

I think Budweiser is taking advantage of the Hurricane by "donating water" and "stopping the brewery to help hurricane victims.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/30/hurricane-harvey-houston-water-anheuser-busch/

They made press releases, got coverage on all of the major networks and newspapers, news websites. All for donating 155,000 12-oz cans of water. About 3-truckloads. I don't know the cost of three truckloads of water in aluminum cans but the press coverage was likely worth much more.

For reference, one of their breweries, Newark, NJ, produces about 90-truckloads of beer per day.

 

I think Budweiser is taking advantage of the Hurricane by "donating water" and "stopping the brewery to help hurricane victims.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/30/hurricane-harvey-houston-water-anheuser-busch/

They made press releases, got coverage on all of the major networks and newspapers, news websites. All for donating 155,000 12-oz cans of water. About 3-truckloads. I don't know the cost of three truckloads of water in aluminum cans but the press coverage was likely worth much more.

For reference, one of their breweries, Newark, NJ, produces about 90-truckloads of beer per day.

I bet they are... but, ever heard the 'ol say'n: "Don't look a gift-horse in the mouth" ???

 

I bet they are... but, ever heard the 'ol say'n: "Don't look a gift-horse in the mouth" ???

Yup, a gift for sure. People don't drink them, they sell them at $5 each to beer can collectors.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_od...water.TRS0&_nkw=anheuser+busch+water&_sacat=0

 

Yup, a gift for sure. People don't drink them, they sell them at $5 each to beer can collectors.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_od...water.TRS0&_nkw=anheuser+busch+water&_sacat=0

Ha! ... and the labels read "not for sale" at the bottom! ... good link...

 

Hello,

Where will hurricane Irma go?

Bertus

 

Hello,

Where will hurricane Irma go?

Bertus

Hijacker, open a Hurricane IRMA thread

 

A few unexpected info-bits gathered today.

Power going to be off for awhile at kids flooded house and alarm system was running on its small backup battery. Lasted the night then I showed up with a big 12V SLA and swapped it out. System wouldn't come up. Messed around awhile then called tech support at provider. They said yep, it won't come up from battery alone you have to have AC power to get it to run on the backup power necessary when AC fails.

Who thought that was a good idea?

Ha! Not to be outfoxed, I grabbed a UPS from the computer took it upstairs to fire up the alarm with its AC output - except that like the alarm, once the plug is pulled, it won't fire up on battery either. Same good-idea guy, I guess. But at least the guy who works at Chipotle across the street can relate the interesting how-was-your-day story of some old dude toting in an APC UPS, asking to plug it in for a moment then leaving with the stupid thing bleating away. Alarm is up! The lesson is obvious: make sure you have AC available to boot the backup devices you need when there is no AC available.. er.. Made a 'Y' cable to exchange batteries next time.

Lots of horrible stuff in the flood waters causing some minor illnesses here. @strantor Use caution, masks, gloves, boots while messing with that car if you can. Ecoli and norovirus active not to mention nasty chemicals. Swab stuff down with alcohol externally. Swab internals with Bourbon or Scotch as desired.

Houston is pulling together, neighbors helping strangers and vice-versa. Need something? Just tap on a neighbor's door - if he has it, you get it.

 

Ha! Not to be outfoxed, I grabbed a UPS from the computer took it upstairs to fire up the alarm with its AC output - except that like the alarm, once the plug is pulled, it won't fire up on battery either. Same good-idea guy, I guess. But at least the guy who works at Chipotle across the street can relate the interesting how-was-your-day story of some old dude toting in an APC UPS, asking to plug it in for a moment then leaving with the stupid thing bleating away. Alarm is up! The lesson is obvious: make sure you have AC available to boot the backup devices you need when there is no AC available.. er.. Made a 'Y' cable to exchange batteries next time.

APC and others make some units with a 'cold-start'. Try holding the power button down for like 30 seconds or longer. Worth a try if you lose power.

 

Lots of horrible stuff in the flood waters causing some minor illnesses here. @strantor Use caution, masks, gloves, boots while messing with that car if you can. Ecoli and norovirus active not to mention nasty chemicals. Swab stuff down with alcohol externally. Swab internals with Bourbon or Scotch as desired.

With flooding, especially the major proportions you guys are seeing. that was always one of my major concerns. The water gets infected with everything from raw sewage to human remains, ugly but a fact. Yeah, extreme caution with gloves, boots and any protective gear you can find.

Ron

 

APC and others make some units with a 'cold-start'. Try holding the power button down for like 30 seconds or longer. Worth a try if you lose power.

I'll try that. This one has a mechanical switch but maybe the TEST button.. Thanks!

 

Ha! Not to be outfoxed, I grabbed a UPS from the computer took it upstairs to fire up the alarm with its AC output - except that like the alarm, once the plug is pulled, it won't fire up on battery either. Same good-idea guy, I guess.

Who, indeed.

When we had a power outage I used to go down and shut off the stuff connected to the UPSs and shut them down because I wanted to save them in case I really needed to power something before the power came back on. Never needed to do that because power always came back on within a short amount of time. It appears I may have been real luck that I didn't need it.

Stupid design. I can't imagine it could be THAT hard to give them self-start capability and it sure seems like no-brainer that they should have it. Any car inverter obviously can.

All of the batteries in all of my UPSs have long since gone bad (the newest is probably nearly ten years old) and I need to see how many of them I can even replace the batteries in. But you can bet this is one thing that I will be testing. Fortunately, now that I know about it, I can (should be able to, anyway) use one of my small car inverters to bring them up.

 

On another Hurricane Harvey related story the morning news was showing some of the first dogs to arrive in Cleveland through the APL (Animal Protective League) from Texas. The Cleveland APL always has a tent at some of the bike nites I go to and I always donate telling them it's from Biscuit and Charlotte. Also several Cleveland Police Officers left here today with truck loads of supplies for the devastated areas. Among the supplies was 1,000 pounds of dog food. I told Biscuit and Charlotte their donations were at work.

Ron

 

A ruined couch (and an entire home) is an economic loss to its owner who most likely will have to spend part of his/her assets to replace it. A reduction of the assets (and also the quality & productivity of the lives) of 1000s of people is definitely a loss to the economy and there's no way in hell anyone can make the argument there's anything good about it.

Please, let's not use "Orwellian" reasoning in an attempt to claim that something that's horribly bad is actually a good thing.

This is known as the Broken Window Fallacy.