How to wire a 3 pins IR receiver as a switch for two 1.5 or 3V vibrating motors ?

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
Dear Sir/Madam,

Recently I try to create simple electronic tiny toy for my son to assemble and learn the basic of electronic,
I saw a simple schematic using a IR receiver as a switch for LED allowing to use any remote control to light up the LED.

3PCS_IR-REMOTE-CONTROL_001.jpg

I m searching now how to use that IR receiver to be also the switch of two tiny 1.5V or 3V vibrating motors ( the type used inside mobile phone )
I tried to create on a breadboard that schematic i though could works ( image below ) but as i'm not an Electronic Engineer and more an apprentice sorcerer in electronic, i didn't manage to solve anything.
GK_IR-REMOTE_SCEMATIC_001.jpg
I try to keep as less components as possible for my son to manage to visualize how electronic works basically.
if any of the community here can guide me through this :')

thank you in advance :')

PS: I suggest a 1838 IR R on schematic as it works for the LED, but not sure this is the right one if to switch on some motors.
 

KeithWalker

Joined Jul 10, 2017
1,852
The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not a simple IR detector. It is designed to receive signals from an IR remote controller that has a 38KHz carrier frequency. The signal output is digital and needs a micro processor to decode it. The maximum output current is 5mA which is not enough to drive any kind of motor.
For your simple application you need a IR photo detector diode. Here is a project that will show you what you need.
https://www.homemade-circuits.com/how-to-connect-ir-photodiode-sensor/
 

Audioguru again

Joined Oct 21, 2019
3,318
A TSOP1838 IR receiver has a max output current of only 5mA so you must add a PNP transistor and a series base resistor for it so that its collector can drive your motors and LEDs. The IR receiver reduces its sensitivity if you do not use specified bursts of pulses with specified gaps. Its datasheet shows only a 5V supply, not 3.3V.
Your schematic has the Motors getting a voltage limited by the LEDs and the LEDs might burn out since there is no resistor to limit their current.
 

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not a simple IR detector. It is designed to receive signals from an IR remote controller that has a 38KHz carrier frequency. The signal output is digital and needs a micro processor to decode it. The maximum output current is 5mA which is not enough to drive any kind of motor.
For your simple application you need a IR photo detector diode. Here is a project that will show you what you need.
https://www.homemade-circuits.com/how-to-connect-ir-photodiode-sensor/
Thank you,
i just checked your link, as I'm not really familiar with this, not sure i understand all those schematic details and the way i should adapt it to solve my problem.
i think i understand what you mean by 5mA needed to drive a motor and checked those vibrating motor that seems to require 75mA.
also i saw on your link they mainly talk about 5 / 9 / 12 V battery, so not sure i can use those suggestion for a 3V button battery.
and last question, about the IR photodiode Receiver ( do you mean this by detector ? ) it seems it has to be use with a IR photodiode transmiter on your link, do you mean i need to use both of them ?

the initial idea is to get a 3V battery that run two tiny vibrating motors that can be switch ON while long pressing a button on a remote control, when stopping to press the button, it turn OFF.

thank you for your answer :')
 

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
A TSOP1838 IR receiver has a max output current of only 5mA so you must add a PNP transistor and a series base resistor for it so that its collector can drive your motors and LEDs. The IR receiver reduces its sensitivity if you do not use specified bursts of pulses with specified gaps. Its datasheet shows only a 5V supply, not 3.3V.
Your schematic has the Motors getting a voltage limited by the LEDs and the LEDs might burn out since there is no resistor to limit their current.
hello thank you,

i saw a kind of similar schematic with a transistor, but when i tried it it seemed that the LED was glowing really low, so i though maybe not the way to push hehe see image below

3PCS_IR-REMOTE-CONTROL-B_001.jpg

about the burst of pulse you mention i mainly press the volume button to get it repeating as long as i press.
about the resistor i can add resistor in front of each led ( see image below ), but not sure where to place the transistor you mention.
GK_IR-REMOTE_SCEMATIC_001b.jpg

thank you :')
 

Attachments

AnalogKid

Joined Aug 1, 2013
9,290
The problem here is that the 1838 is the wrong part for either job. It is sorta kinda good enough ok to light an LED, mainly because persistence of vision in the retina of your eye is masking what is really going on. This doesn't work with a motor for two reasons. First, even with circuit corrections, the 1838 output stage by itself cannot move enough energy to run a small motor. As little energy as such a motor needs, it still is more than an LED needs to appear visible. Second, a motor has mass, which takes time to accelerate; even if the 1838 output could sink enough current to run the motor, the pulsed nature of its output is exactly the opposite of what the motor wants to see as a power source.

As a simple light-controlled switch to demonstrate the principle, consider a light-dependent resistor (LDR) such as a cadmium-sulphide cell (CdS). This plus one transistor, one diode, and one resistor, can switch on a small motor with the beam of a flashlight. An advantage of this approach is that there is no magic, such as what is really going on inside the 1838, to explain to a child. There probably is a kit for this on ebay.

Where are you located?

ak
 

KeithWalker

Joined Jul 10, 2017
1,852
the initial idea is to get a 3V battery that run two tiny vibrating motors that can be switch ON while long pressing a button on a remote control, when stopping to press the button, it turn OFF.
The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not suitable for driving the motors, even with an amplifier because its output is a stream of digital pulses, not a switched DC level. You need to get a IR transmitter diode and a IR receiving diode for what you are trying to do.

In the diagrams, the IR transmitter diode is shown connected to the same supply as the receiver. That is just to demonstrate that by blocking the radiated IR the receiver will switch. You can use separate batteries for the transmitter and receiver section. You will need more than 3V for the supplies. The range of the circuits shown is only a few centimeters.
 

Audioguru again

Joined Oct 21, 2019
3,318
I am sorry to see that Nicodelad does not know enough about electronics to make this simple circuit.
In my previous reply I mentioned the specified bursts of pulses and specified gaps shown in the datasheet for the IR detector IC and said to use a PNP transistor but he did not understand.
He doesn't know if his remote will activate the IR detector he has.
 

Attachments

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
The problem here is that the 1838 is the wrong part for either job. It is sorta kinda good enough ok to light an LED, mainly because persistence of vision in the retina of your eye is masking what is really going on. This doesn't work with a motor for two reasons. First, even with circuit corrections, the 1838 output stage by itself cannot move enough energy to run a small motor. As little energy as such a motor needs, it still is more than an LED needs to appear visible. Second, a motor has mass, which takes time to accelerate; even if the 1838 output could sink enough current to run the motor, the pulsed nature of its output is exactly the opposite of what the motor wants to see as a power source.

As a simple light-controlled switch to demonstrate the principle, consider a light-dependent resistor (LDR) such as a cadmium-sulphide cell (CdS). This plus one transistor, one diode, and one resistor, can switch on a small motor with the beam of a flashlight. An advantage of this approach is that there is no magic, such as what is really going on inside the 1838, to explain to a child. There probably is a kit for this on ebay.

Where are you located?

ak
thank you will investigate the direction you mention :')
i checked if they was similar circuits on internet, but most of them use directly Arduino solution which is already too much,
i try to stick to very simple analogic circuit,
about the 1838 it was not a suggestion from me, i should have not mentionned it :') .
thank you
 

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not suitable for driving the motors, even with an amplifier because its output is a stream of digital pulses, not a switched DC level. You need to get a IR transmitter diode and a IR receiving diode for what you are trying to do.

In the diagrams, the IR transmitter diode is shown connected to the same supply as the receiver. That is just to demonstrate that by blocking the radiated IR the receiver will switch. You can use separate batteries for the transmitter and receiver section. You will need more than 3V for the supplies. The range of the circuits shown is only a few centimeters.
ok thank you
i m using mainly 3V 2032, and hope to use only one, so will continue to check around this, and if really no possibility, will abandon the idea.
i will investigate your suggetion about the IR T and IR R together.
thank you
 

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
I am sorry to see that Nicodelad does not know enough about electronics to make this simple circuit.
In my previous reply I mentioned the specified bursts of pulses and specified gaps shown in the datasheet for the IR detector IC and said to use a PNP transistor but he did not understand.
He doesn't know if his remote will activate the IR detector he has.
hehe yes discovering electronic by doing :')
will buy a bunch of Darlington BC516 and check again.
Led i will use the lower one, like Red that might be 1.2V and put a resistor for each.
i just made a new Schematic , i guess it s wrong hehe but to see if i m far far away or if it goes a bit somehow where it should be :')
GK_IR-REMOTE-PNP_SCEMATIC_001.jpg

thank you for your help :')
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
7,763
You either don’t understand the replies people are giving you or you are choosing to ignore their advice.
  • The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not a switch like a transistor
  • The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not an IR detector
  • The TSOP 1838 IR receiver produces a series of pulses that must be interpreted by further electronics... maybe a microprocessor
  • To drive those motors, you will need to add a driver circuit. Their current requirement is much greater than the TSOP 1838 IR receiver or a microprocessor can supply
Until you can design a circuit that addressed what we all have been trying to explain to you, you will not succeed.

Sorry
 
Last edited:

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
3,498
Your CR 2032 cannot supply 75mA. Try two AA or AAA cells. And put the motors in parallel, not series.

And, you don’t need (or want) a Darlington, just a PNP transistor.

And, you need a resistor between the base and the TSOP.

And, you need to remove the resistor in series with the motors.

And, you need to put a resistor in series with each LED.

Then it might work.

Bob
 
Last edited:

Sensacell

Joined Jun 19, 2012
2,852
Let's not overthink this.

The detector WILL produce pulses when it detects IR pulses at the correct carrier frequency.

If we IGNORE the fact that this outputs a digital code and simply detect the presence of pulses with a capacitor peak detector - then it CAN work to control a load.

Chose an RC time constant of around 250 Milliseconds and this circuit should do the job.

Ir Det.jpg
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
7,763
Let's not overthink this.

The detector WILL produce pulses when it detects IR pulses at the correct carrier frequency.

If we IGNORE the fact that this outputs a digital code and simply detect the presence of pulses with a capacitor peak detector - then it CAN work to control a load.

Chose an RC time constant of around 250 Milliseconds and this circuit should do the job.

View attachment 228173
Thanks @Sensacell I like your solution. And note that it satisfies the four points I summarized in post #12
 

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
You either don’t understand the replies people are giving you or you are choosing to ignore their advice.
  • The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not a switch like a transistor
  • The TSOP 1838 IR receiver is not an IR detector
  • The TSOP 1838 IR receiver produces a series of pulses that must be interpreted by further electronics... maybe a microprocessor
  • To drive those motors, you will need to add a driver circuit. Their current requirement is much greater than the TSOP 1838 IR receiver or a microprocessor can supply
Until you can design a circuit that addressed what we all have been trying to explain to you, you will not succeed.

Sorry
yes i m really a beginner,
so sorry if i look not understanding,
subtleties that might look very clear and simple for you are totally out of my perception,
i try as much as i can to understand and translate what i get from your advices,
also as there is different suggestions going different directions,
i might be looking confused in that maelstrom of advices :')
also again i mention i sayed 1838 but just as it was suggested to light up the LED, so let s forget about this reference,
a driver circuit like you suggest seems already too complex, do you know some very basic one ?
thank you for your time.
i m really a newbie there :')
 

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
Let's not overthink this.

The detector WILL produce pulses when it detects IR pulses at the correct carrier frequency.

If we IGNORE the fact that this outputs a digital code and simply detect the presence of pulses with a capacitor peak detector - then it CAN work to control a load.

Chose an RC time constant of around 250 Milliseconds and this circuit should do the job.

View attachment 228173
thank you, will try to build your schematic on a bread board :')
 

Thread Starter

Nicodelad

Joined Jan 14, 2021
9
Your CR 2032 cannot supply 75mA. Try two AA or AAA cells. And put the motors in parallel, not series.

And, you don’t need (or want) a Darlington, just a PNP transistor.

And, you need a resistor between the base and the TSOP.

And, you need to remove the resistor in series with the motors.

And, you need to put a resistor in series with each LED.

Then it might work.

Bob
thank you, will check and try to draw a Schematic based on what you suggest
 

Audioguru again

Joined Oct 21, 2019
3,318
I used a darlington because the 75mA motor(s) draws a lot more than 75mA when it (they) starts, plus more current for two LEDs.
The max current from the output of the TSOP IR receiver is only 5mA and a saturated transistor needs a base current that is 1/10th the collector current.

The IR receiver operates with specified bursts of 38kHz pulses with specified length of gaps between the bursts.
There is one chance in one thousand that his remote will do it, Then the motors and LEDs will flicker on and off at the bursts/gaps frequency, unless a filter and amplifier are added.
 
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