Now there is this lengthy process with different murder charges in order to determine his penalty. Come on, this costs MONEY! Wasn't it already proven that he was it? For what reason doesn't matter.

If it was my daughter who died there I would never ever want him to have one happy second. What does it help to put him into prison, for the rest of his life?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/0...-shooting-suspect-was-charged-in-unusual-way/

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holm...ce-weeks-movie/story?id=16943858#.UCEQt7UqFpg

The psychiatrist who treated suspected movie-theater shooter James Holmes made contact with a University of Colorado police officer to express concerns about her patient's behavior several weeks before Holmes' alleged rampage, sources told ABC News.
...
Fenton would have had to have serious concerns to break confidentiality with her patient to reach out to the police officer or others, the sources said. Under Colorado law, a psychiatrist can legally breach a pledge of confidentiality with a patient if he or she becomes aware of a serious and imminent threat that their patient might cause harm to others. Psychiatrists can also breach confidentiality if a court has ordered them to do so.

 

If the world worked by 'an eye for an eye', then we would all be blind.

 

Now there is this lengthy process with different murder charges in order to determine his penalty. Come on, this costs MONEY! Wasn't it already proven that he was it? For what reason doesn't matter.

If it was my daughter who died there I would never ever want him to have one happy second. What does it help to put him into prison, for the rest of his life?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/0...-shooting-suspect-was-charged-in-unusual-way/

To many people prison is 10 times worse then death. Thats why so many convicts/criminals fight to the death rather then return. The worst thing you can ever do to a human is to isolate them in a cage.

 

If the world worked by 'an eye for an eye', then we would all be blind.

Well we sure as **** need glasses or at least cateract surgery.

 

"life in prison" is a useless sentence. Especially in a case like this, or if someone admits to the crime. There is no chance of redeeming evidence surfacing at a later date, and why punish them with "isolation in a cage" for the rest of their lives? Isn't the point of punishment to 'teach someone a lesson'? What are they going to do with that lesson? I say, either kill them as expeditiously as possible or give them a prison term with a finish line. Life in prison is no good for the convicts or the tax payers.
As far as the trial itself, everyone is entitled to a fair trial with representation. It sucks that we have to pay for it, and it's quite silly considering that there is no question about his guilt. But if we were to skip the trial and go straight to beheading, no matter how logical, that would set a scary precedent. We as a nation would forfeit our 6th amendment rights henceforth if we did that.

 

Actually this goes to different philosophies, which no two people share. It is always a mistake to assume you do.

I tend to favor the death penalty, but believe it is vastly overused. Mine is a minority view though.

I also believe the prison concept is flawed. Punishment makes victims and vengeful people feel good, but what does it actually do? The only things prisons really do is remove people with antisocial behaviors from practicing on the rest of us. That is their real goal. If you could really change people, remove the antisocial behavior then we could save real bucks. Of course, I am talking brainwashing at its most extreme, which by itself gives me the cold chills.

Robert Heinlein had an idea with his story Coventry. No prison, a isolated spot, perhaps an island, but with real psychiatrists capable of telling whether a person is really cured (or socially sane). You do not have to submit to the treatment (a form of mind control), you can isolate yourself in a free for all society instead. Sounds a bit like Australia, doesn't it? Not sure how you would handle the local government that would arise though, which is a fly in the ointment.

 

Wait - so you're saying Australia isn't being filled with our convicts any more?

 

I think the key IMHO is to isolate them. If I was facing a 50+ year bid I'd off myself. Death is to quick, easy, and painless. I want em in a cage 23 hours a day with 1 hour to play basketball with himself for then next 50 years. But its a very controversial opinion. I'm not against the death penalty but I don't think it should be capital punishment. I think for lesser muders then yes give them death and the easy way out. For these sociopaths that take out numberous people without thought need to be caged for life and basically used as guinee pigs for science. Who knows what we may find in these peoples brains after 10 20 years. Too many time have we found a family annialator or mass murderer that has serious brain issues from tumors to just plain wires crossed. And some people are just bad. If we give death to all these people as science advances and we map the gene pools and get a good brain map. Who knows what we could have learned from these people. Thats just my thoughts.

 

If the world worked by 'an eye for an eye', then we would all be blind.

Yes, you are right. This is why the killing never ends in countries where "an eye for an eye" still applies.
Now, we in our civilized world have brought it to the other extreme, where a murderer can get away with a year in prison (or less). Depends all on your laywer and the amount of money you have.

Only the person who suffered the crime (or his relatives) knows what the penalty should be.

 

I also believe the prison concept is flawed. Punishment makes victims and vengeful people feel good, but what does it actually do? The only things prisons really do is remove people with antisocial behaviors from practicing on the rest of us.

I don't disagree with you, but I'm curious, barring the brainwash island idea, what should we do? Prison is advertised to "rehabilitate" people but I think it only teaches most of them to be better, or at least more bitter, criminals. Do you think that if people lost a hand for stealing, or lost something without a symmetrical replacement for rape, would it be more of a deterrent? or do you think things would carry on business as usual?

Yes, you are right. This is why the killing never ends in countries where "an eye for an eye" still applies.
Now, we in our civilized world have brought it to the other extreme, where a murderer can get away with a year in prison (or less).

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. People are flawed. No matter how "civilized" we get, we will never be civilized.

 

Yes, you are right. This is why the killing never ends in countries where "an eye for an eye" still applies.
Now, we in our civilized world have brought it to the other extreme, where a murderer can get away with a year in prison (or less). Depends all on your laywer and the amount of money you have.

Only the person who suffered the crime (or his relatives) knows what the penalty should be.

Current rates in FL are $200k if you smoke the wrong person. But if its someone important that goes up or not buyable. But if you just smoke an average joe you walk paying $150k-$250k.

 

There are, even in the states, alternative programs that have been successful in rehabilitating dangerous offenders. This can only go so far based on the origin of their behavior, as there are sex offenders who can never be rehabilitated because their problem is psychological (actually biological in nature). If put on medication, when released, how to ensure that they are taking those medications?

Wyoming Honor Farm Inmate/Wild Horse Programis old and really neat. Actually, any program where people get to work with animals is great.

then there are options of more community involvement, as isolating the person from society does nothing in terms of rehabilitation. But first and foremost, need to work on social structure to prevent crime from happening (here I am talking more about gang, theft etc). I do not believe it is possible to prevent events such as what transpired, with the exception of the letter that he sent to university but that was not read in time.

To push the boundaries a bit, if the government started to follow activities of arabs and people affiliated with muslim religion (they prevented Yusuf Islam a.k.a. Cat Stevens from crossing the border into states) just because, then would it not be logical that they should also follow activities of someone who goes to see a psychiatrist? Why would a person who sees a psychiatrist be allowed to buy guns?

 

Because people see phsychiatrist for various reasons not just homicidal rage. Thats a huge debate right now if Dr.s can ask patients about gun ownership. It may be just FL but I thought it was nationwide. But thats a big topic now. Why would you watch people that goto psychiatrist for marital problems? self image issues?anoraxia and other eating disorders? some times just depressed. Makes no sense to watch them. If its that bad the dr has options to break privilage like she did. That should have prevented this whole thing. The problem was the LEO didn't take the shrink seriously.

 

Wouldn't it suck if going to a shrink automatically put you on some government watch list? Then you'd be conflicted about whether or not to seek help. I bet lots of people would choose to not address their problems out of fear of being followed around by unmarked vans and having their phones tapped. Then we would have an even worse problem with crazies inflicting their craziness on us.

Muslims on the other hand have declared war on us, repeatedly. Seems only logical that we would keep tabs on them.

 

That's the reason why I brought it up in a specific context - government was watching a whole group of people based on their places of origin. Anyway, there is no way out of it, but if you are depressed, your ability to make rational decisions may be impaired, same goes for people undergoing all types of counselling. I know a few people in the states who own a hand-gun and I believe that they would be better off without it for their own sake for very specific reasons. People with marital problems - here a guy killed his family over a divorce... was a bit of shock to the community.

It is a difficult discussion of a rights of an individual, but then it becomes individual's rights to own something vs. another individual's rights to safety and possibly life (this is of course a naive and pointless discussion as anybody can buy anything anywhere if they want it)

 

Muslims on the other hand have declared war on us, repeatedly. Seems only logical that we would keep tabs on them.

I'm sure you meant those terrorists/extremists etc. I know several muslims that condemn terrrorist acts.
There are extremists for everything. In Brazil there are black gay/white haters, must be the "black supremacy". There is at least one idiot for every stupid idea on earth.

 

Wouldn't it suck if going to a shrink automatically put you on some government watch list? Then you'd be conflicted about whether or not to seek help. I bet lots of people would choose to not address their problems out of fear of being followed around by unmarked vans and having their phones tapped. Then we would have an even worse problem with crazies inflicting their craziness on us.

Muslims on the other hand have declared war on us, repeatedly. Seems only logical that we would keep tabs on them.

I didn't say to be observed but to have a red flag come up when someone tries to purchase a weapon.

 

I'm sure you meant those terrorists/extremists etc. I know several muslims that condemn terrrorist acts.
There are extremists for everything. In Brazil there are black gay/white haters, must be the "black supremacy". There is at least one idiot for every stupid idea on earth.

Thank you, I wanted to reply to that, but didn't know how... There is a very interesting movie called "Four Lions" about british jihadists wanna-bees that is a dark comedy but looks at the subject from many angles.

If you have knowledge network, they have a series of documentaries by Isreali filmmakers. Last week was Israel Inc about 'The Israel Experience', quite interesting. Don't want to make any comments. There is another good movie based on real experience called "Waltz with Bashir"

 

I know a few people in the states who own a hand-gun and I believe that they would be better off without it for their own sake for very specific reasons. People with marital problems - here a guy killed his family over a divorce... was a bit of shock to the community.

This is called a family annialator and is a total sociopath. Their reasoning is that without them their family can't survive and would be better off dead. These are the crazies, but most will never have treatment cause their not crazy, they just have no concience and only think of themselves as the center of the universe. Its actually quite common these days.