Hello,
I'm a bit confused about where to get 230v supply for factory automation type applications.
There are a lot of motors and other devices that use 230v single and three phase, but the most common feed in the facilities I've seen are 480/277 and 208/120. Using a step down transformer is one method off course, but looking at some of the automation catalogs that I normally use, they don't seem to have any 480 to 230 transformers, for example. I'm sure somebody makes one, but it doesn't seem to be very common. 230V is a commonly used voltage though, so what is the most common method for getting it?

 

Hello,
I'm a bit confused about where to get 230v supply for factory automation type applications.
There are a lot of motors and other devices that use 230v single and three phase, but the most common feed in the facilities I've seen are 480/277 and 208/120. Using a step down transformer is one method off course, but looking at some of the automation catalogs that I normally use, they don't seem to have any 480 to 230 transformers, for example. I'm sure somebody makes one, but it doesn't seem to be very common. 230V is a commonly used voltage though, so what is the most common method for getting it?

Where do you live?

 

In the USA ...
4 Wire WYE can be 208 Volts Line-Line and 120 Volts Line-Neutral
4 Wire WYE can be 480 Volts Line-Line and 277 Volts Line-Neutral
3 Wire DELTA can be 208 Volts Line-Line
4 Wire DELTA can be 240 Volts Line-Line and 120 Volts Line-Neutral
4 Wire DELTA can be 480 Volts Line-Line and 240 Volts Line-Neutral
3 Wire Split-Phase can be 240 Volts Line-Line and 120 Volts Line-Neutral ( Residential & Small Business )

230 Volts is not a common voltage in the USA.
120, 208, 240, 277 & 480 are common voltages in the USA.

International ...
4 Wire WYE can be 400 Volts Line-Line and 230 Volts Line-Neutral

International Electrical Distribution Systems
https://ctlsys.com/support/electrical_service_types_and_voltages/

 

I'm in the US and the supplies are normally 4 wire 480/277 wye and 4 wire 208/120 wye.
So 277 line to neutral is only single phase and too far above the 230v needed and 208v is too low.

 

I think your concentrating too much on a number, "230V". What type of 'factory automation' are you worried about? Voltage have changed over the years on mains, the old way was to call things, for example, 110VAC, but now that same main is almost 130V(mine measures 126V most days). So that would make the 220V at around 250V.

 

If the device calls for 230VAC, 220-240VAC will be ok.

 

480v to 120/240v 1ph transformers for control circuitry are very common and usually available at any decent local electrical supply.
1ph in N.A. now is generally 120/240.
Hammond is a good source also.
Max.

 

For example, let's say I want to run a 230V 3 ph motor, which is very common in the us. What would be the standard way of feeding this motor?
Putting a transformer inside the control panel to get the desired voltage is a common method, but I don't see very many options for 230v or 240v 3 ph. I see the 1 ph ones, they have plenty of those.
I've seen pictures of panels that have 3 phase 230v motor drives in them, but I don't see a transformer. Perhaps there's a facility wide 3 phase 230v or 240v 3ph transformer?

 

There are a few manufacturers out there, e.g. Sola has they type you want as well as Hammond.
What I have done in a pinch, is put one together from three 1ph versions.
Max.

 

Thank you, Max. I will take a look at those and I was wondering about using three 1ph.
I just still find it odd that 230v 3ph is a standard motor and supply components for these seem to be limited.

 

Thats all a 3ph transformer is anyway, Three 1ph versions all mounted on the same core
Here is one article on the subject.
https://www.electrical4u.com/single...r-vs-bank-of-three-single-phase-transformers/
Max.

 

Thank you, Max. I will take a look at those and I was wondering about using three 1ph.
I just still find it odd that 230v 3ph is a standard motor and supply components for these seem to be limited.

Depends on where you look. Start with industrial supply houses, in the US, suppliers like McMaster Carr or Grainger. Where I woked before retirement just about all of our devices, other than standard 120 VAC 60 Hz were 480 volt delta. Then someone bought a large environmental chamber which was 240 VAC (all the motors and heating elements). I just went to Grainger and bought a transformer with an adequate KVA rating. Anyway, depending on three phase supply the transformers are pretty common in any industrial supply house. Additionally you can configure, as Max points out, three single phase transformers.

Real nice link from Max also.

Ron

 

I just looked at McMaster and Grainger, when I apply filters for a three phase 230 or 240 out transformer, there are none. Can be done with three singles though.
I think maybe the problem is I'm thinking of bringing 480 to the control panel and stepping down from there. It sounds like it's more common for the facility to provide 230/240 to the panel. So the facility would have a larger transformer at the main panel which could supply multiple 240 panels/circuits.

 

Grainger 480/240v
https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/en/product/TRANSFORMER,240V-OUTPUT,6KVA/p/WWG4WTZ2
Max.

 

Their filters don't work very well, when I put 240 out that one doesn't show up. Also, that one is a 480 delta input and a larger facility level unit. That supports my thinking that supplying 240 is more of a facility level function rather than machine/control panel level. That would also explain why I saw some 230v panels with no transformer.

 

Hello,
I'm a bit confused about where to get 230v supply for factory automation type applications.
There are a lot of motors and other devices that use 230v single and three phase, but the most common feed in the facilities I've seen are 480/277 and 208/120. Using a step down transformer is one method off course, but looking at some of the automation catalogs that I normally use, they don't seem to have any 480 to 230 transformers, for example. I'm sure somebody makes one, but it doesn't seem to be very common. 230V is a commonly used voltage though, so what is the most common method for getting it?

Three-phase, low-voltage motors will often be dual-rated, i.e., specified for 230 or 208 volts.
If your facility has no low-voltage (230 v nominal,) use a 480v motor. They come in the same frame-sizes and power ratings as the low-voltage.

 

Hello,
I'm a bit confused about where to get 230v supply for factory automation type applications.
There are a lot of motors and other devices that use 230v single and three phase, but the most common feed in the facilities I've seen are 480/277 and 208/120. Using a step down transformer is one method off course, but looking at some of the automation catalogs that I normally use, they don't seem to have any 480 to 230 transformers, for example. I'm sure somebody makes one, but it doesn't seem to be very common. 230V is a commonly used voltage though, so what is the most common method for getting it?

What factory automation device needs 3 Phase 230 Volts AC ?

 

Their filters don't work very well, when I put 240 out that one doesn't show up. Also, that one is a 480 delta input and a larger facility level unit. That supports my thinking that supplying 240 is more of a facility level function rather than machine/control panel level. That would also explain why I saw some 230v panels with no transformer.

Depends on what you have as to facility power and what you need. I worked with 480 volt delta directly off our sub of 13.3 KV coming in. In some cases I used transformers but all of our facility 120 VAC single phase was derived from a few large transformers throughout the facility. There were times I built a transformer into my control panels or sometimes I just used 120 VAC available power. We had 20 Amp and 30 Amp outlets. Always consider your power requirement. That is important and as an example using the link Max provided note the KVA rating.

Three-phase, low-voltage motors will often be dual-rated, i.e., specified for 230 or 208 volts.
If your facility has no low-voltage (230 v nominal,) use a 480v motor. They come in the same frame-sizes and power ratings as the low-voltage.

Most we used were 240 or 480 volt just a matter of how they were wired. Anyway, look at what you have and what you want/need.

Ron

 

What factory automation device needs 3 Phase 230 Volts AC ?

Plenty I can think of, especially where large heaters are used. Here is an example:

A much younger me. Each heater 1/2 band is 240 VAC 3.0 KW. There are 72 bands top to bottom of the auto-clave so 24 6 KW bands per phase in a DELTA configuration. The earlier versions used 120 volt elements so each 1/2 was 120 volts and joined they were 240 volts. The merit to going from 240 VAC to the 480 VAC was we could use smaller gauge hi temperature nichrome wire.

Years ago I worked in an older facility and all the main buss work was 220 VAC three phase. The facility was built during WW II. Thus everything was done around 220 VAC three phase.



Ron

 

I much prefer the 480VAC / 120VAC / 24VDC combo. Every once in a while though, I'll run into a component I want to use that's only rated for 230. They may have been dual rated, I'll have to check. I work on projects for varying facilities, so I'm trying to make things more universal. Sounds like I should stick to 480 unless I can get the facility specs ahead of time.

480 to 120 is not a problem, there are many small panel mountable transformers for that.

An example of my dilemma is in the link below. These servo systems from automation direct are only available in 230V (1ph and 3ph).
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motion_control/servo_systems