Global Warming

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recca02

Joined Apr 2, 2007
1,214
okay tell me gentlemen we will have almost used up all the fossil fuel in some years,
what do u have to say for all the CO2 (+other green house gases) released from these?
do u not think they would amount to anything?
mind you for 12 kg of carbon in fuel we get 44 Kg of CO2.
 

thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,084
Just ONE Question .. Do ALL Politicians from Tennessee believe Global Warming is a serious issue ? :rolleyes:
If they think more voters want to hear they do, then "yes." If they think more voters want to hear they don't, then "no."

How does one tell when a politician is lying? Their lips move!:)

mind you for 12 kg of carbon in fuel we get 44 Kg of CO2.
For every 44Kg of CO2 consumed by plankton, we get 32Kg of Oxygen. Carbon atoms are tiny in comparison to oxygen atoms.
 

FredM

Joined Dec 27, 2005
124
For every 44Kg of CO2 consumed by plankton, we get 32Kg of Oxygen. Carbon atoms are tiny in comparison to oxygen atoms.
And when the plankton die due to us screwing up the environment, and massive deforistation occurs (as has allready), and systematically all the carbon sinks are depleted?

I am not going to bother posting on this thread anymore - its pointless.. Put your heads in the sand - Dont worry about it.. we will all be ok in the end!!

Any tiny shreds of hope I had have now completely gone - If this had been a forum for those with incredibly low IQ's I would not be depressed.. but looking at the number of people who are reading this thread vs the number contributing to it says (to me) that there is little passion or urgency felt.. And without a LARGE percentage of the population taking this matter SERIOUSLY enough to even state an opinion, the cause is lost.

I can use my time better by spending it with my children, and living for NOW.. Its all I have, and all that they and I are ever going to have.
 

thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,084
Put your heads in the sand - Dont worry about it.. we will all be ok in the end!!
I said on page one the problem would go away after we use up all the oil!

I can use my time better by spending it with my children, and living for NOW.. Its all I have, and all that they and I are ever going to have.
I certainly can agree with this statement! My wife and our friends are having an inspiring time building our post-peak-oil-paradise.
 

Nomad

Joined Oct 21, 2007
43
Theres also studies done with dung beetles that show there have been abrupt (relative term) changes in temperature. then theres the little ice age, mid evil warm period, greenland and the vikings, wine grown in france that about bankrupted England, maps that show people walked where theres hundreds or thousands of feet of ice now. There is lots of evidence this is a natural occurance, and the worlds climate goes through radical changes. besides, yellow stone national park is due to blow anytime making this a redundantly non issue. why aren't we tapping into that huge methane deposit to be used in fuel cells instead of hearding cattle under tents? otherwise all the comments about waste, trash, recycling are very real issues that need to be dealt with. as for deposits that's my 7-up bottle, i found it and had to clean the dirt clods out of it. Who flushed the toilet?
 

HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
Theres also studies done with dung beetles that show there have been abrupt (relative term) changes in temperature. then theres the little ice age, mid evil warm period, greenland and the vikings, wine grown in france that about bankrupted England, maps that show people walked where theres hundreds or thousands of feet of ice now. There is lots of evidence this is a natural occurance, and the worlds climate goes through radical changes. besides, yellow stone national park is due to blow anytime making this a redundantly non issue. why aren't we tapping into that huge methane deposit to be used in fuel cells instead of hearding cattle under tents? otherwise all the comments about waste, trash, recycling are very real issues that need to be dealt with. as for deposits that's my 7-up bottle, i found it and had to clean the dirt clods out of it. Who flushed the toilet?
If Yellowstone errupts, how would we go about containing, or preventing all that CO2 from entering the atomosphere? I was living in Oregon, when Mt. St. Helen blew, it's awesome. The pictures and video never really capture how huge this was. If Yellowstone goes, how many years will it advance the Global Warming 'trend'?

I think the real enviromental issue, is to clean up the trash, and stop producing so much waste. Make better use of the resources we have. Make products that can be more easily recycled or re-purposed, rather then just dumped in a trash hole.

Global Warming was brought out as a threat or motivator, since raw materials are usually cheaper to make products from. Internal combustion has never been very efficient, just cheap and easy. Nobody likes to be decieved, this was a bad choice for getting people to open their eyes, and get more involved in their enviroment. More effiecient, usually means more complicated and more expensive. Would all those millions spent on Global Warming research, advertising, and useless plans to fight it, be better spent on more cost effective products?
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
I think the real enviromental issue, is to clean up the trash, and stop producing so much waste. Make better use of the resources we have. Make products that can be more easily recycled or re-purposed, rather then just dumped in a trash hole.
I would agree with you here Harvey, waste production by humans is obscene and is my pet peave; however its is correct to trade responsible waste management and appropriate engineering of products as an alternative approach to tackling Global Warming? Isn't Global Warming (Climate Change) a different, although aligned, issue to waste management and recyclability?

Dave
 

HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
I would agree with you here Harvey, waste production by humans is obscene and is my pet peave; however its is correct to trade responsible waste management and appropriate engineering of products as an alternative approach to tackling Global Warming? Isn't Global Warming (Climate Change) a different, although aligned, issue to waste management and recyclability?

Dave
I don't believe the Global Warming projections to be accurate, nor is there anything we could actually do to have any effect. Climate change on this planet is normal and natural. After the warming trend ends, I'd expect an equal cooling trend to begin. I believe the Global Warming people are using the cause to get the rest of the population on board with fixing the real enviromental issues, that we can and should change. It's a good goal, and the right thing to do, just the wrong way to achieve it. When Global Warming turns out to be more of a 'computational error', then a catastrophe, people will tend to question the importance of the more important and fundimental enviromental issues that we have some choice in.
Until we find another planet to rape and destroy, and some way to get there, we need to slow down on polluting this one, it's all we have.
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
I don't believe the Global Warming projections to be accurate, nor is there anything we could actually do to have any effect. Climate change on this planet is normal and natural. After the warming trend ends, I'd expect an equal cooling trend to begin. I believe the Global Warming people are using the cause to get the rest of the population on board with fixing the real enviromental issues, that we can and should change. It's a good goal, and the right thing to do, just the wrong way to achieve it. When Global Warming turns out to be more of a 'computational error', then a catastrophe, people will tend to question the importance of the more important and fundimental enviromental issues that we have some choice in.
Until we find another planet to rape and destroy, and some way to get there, we need to slow down on polluting this one, it's all we have.
Interesting point and well put, and can buy that argument to a degree.

Simple question based on the above: would we agree if I said that one of the real environmental (and sociological) issues, you talk of, is the level of energy (however derived) being used?

Dave
 

recca02

Joined Apr 2, 2007
1,214
i read in today's newspaper that india is now receiving 5% less radiation energy from sun due to smog,
that should mean we are going to experience less temperature ,in the end this way we'll balance things out with global warming, with more pollution. :D
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
i read in today's newspaper that india is now receiving 5% less radiation energy from sun due to smog,
that should mean we are going to experience less temperature ,in the end this way we'll balance things out with global warming, with more pollution. :D
Interesting, because there is one school of thought that suggests that the causes of "Global Warming" will have the opposite affect, i.e. "Global Cooling". In recent years the advocates for this stance have changed the name to "Climate Change".

Dave
 

recca02

Joined Apr 2, 2007
1,214
Interesting, because there is one school of thought that suggests that the causes of "Global Warming" will have the opposite affect, i.e. "Global Cooling". In recent years the advocates for this stance have changed the name to "Climate Change".

Dave
it wud be interesting to have a look into the theory behind that.
 

HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
Interesting point and well put, and can buy that argument to a degree.

Simple question based on the above: would we agree if I said that one of the real environmental (and sociological) issues, you talk of, is the level of energy (however derived) being used?

Dave
We waste a huge amount of energy, and usually the production is very ineffcient Here in Florida, its unbelieviable how many people run their air conditioning when the temperature is quite pleasant outside. Or keep the house so cold, the have to wear a sweater... Batteries for toys, MP3 players, ect... I hate seeing them littering the sidewalks. Rechargables aren't much more expensive these days. I've got a neighbor who hops in his SUV to drive to the store for just a couple of small items, usually several trips throughout the day. We have a small store two blocks away, I usually just walk over there. When I drive by the county courthouse at around 2:00 AM, on my way to work, it's well lighted, inside and out. Don't think it's running 24 hours a day. My tax dollars hard at work...
 

beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
It's a partial global cooling. The Gulf Stream contributes a few terrawatts to raise the air temps in Britan and Northern Europe. The transport mechanism works if the warm current loses water to evaporation, and therefore increases in salinity. The denser liquid sinks and returns back south.

The heat transport gets messed up if the melting Greenland ice cap dilutes the Gulf Stream water and lowers the salinity. That may stall the current, resulting in much colder weather in the formerly warmed areas. Rainfall may get cut, too.
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
LIFE or MONEY !!


we have to choose one


( at least from environmental view :D )
Its not a decision our generation will need to take, but one that our childrens, and our childrens childrens, generation may need to take.

Our generation needs to understand if and to what extent human activity is affecting the environment, and how we can change attitudes to tackle this for the future - herein the debate commences, and as can be seen it is not one that is agreed upon.

Dave
 

beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Exactly - every time a volcano puffs out umpteen thousands of tons of gas I have to wonder if we aren't being a bit full of ourselves. The last time the hot spot now under Yellowstone Park let loose, the output was something like 240 cubic miles of solids. The quantity of gases was just beyond imagining. Read up on the flood basalts that made the Deccan Traps in India sometime.
 
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