Global Warming

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Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,960
A point I will make on the bottle recycling point that is rife here in the UK is in pubs and bars - obviously you would expect these establishments to create a large amount of bottle-waste. However in the goverments (local or national - I am not point specific fingers) do not provide commercially logical options for suitable disposal. Firstly, these businesses pay their rates like they should do, I will not comment as to whether these are too high or too low. Secondly, the councils do not provide recycling facilities for these businesses - recycling bins, pick-ups etc, then only have waste-skips which take waste to land-fill. Thirdly, if the pubs and bars want to dispose of the bottled waste for recycling they cannot use the local tips because these are for non-commercial uses. So what option do the publicans have? They throw the bottles into council provided skips and the waste goes to landfill - I just don't get it.

Btw, when I was in my youth I loved returning my empty bottle of Cream Soda for my 5p, which ended up in my savings jar. I bought half a Mega-Drive game with that money!! :D

Dave
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,960
Which Half..?
The "fun" half!! (Without which the game would be boring!)

In actual fact, it was my first taste of business as I would barter with my parents to get them to stump up the other 'half' of the cost of the game - smart kid me!! :D

Dave
 

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greenpeace

Joined Sep 22, 2007
30
To the first question: No, I don't believe the human population has a global impact on weather changes, or much of anything else. We populate only a small fraction of the surface of the planet, and our numbers are still very small compared to other life forms. I believe that if the planet is warming, it's entirely a natural accuring event, and nothing we can do to stop or slow it down. This fad, was born from observations in ice core samples from the north and south poles. Doesn't really say much about the planet as a whole, nor much about the pre-ICE AGE world. The planet was once a much warmer place before the big chill that killed much of the reptile life. Perhaps the planet earth is only recovering from whatever event that cooled it down


Second question: Not so concerned about the temperature or weather, the changes are very small, and slow. People will natural adapt as needed over the years. People have survived the desert heat, long before the industial age, just as they have endured the polar cold. We'll likely kill everything with weapons, then polution.
I disagree with you
the climate has totally changed , and it will continue changing as the emission of gases will continue >

now , many conutries are exposed to cyclones , floods and other extreme weather conditions >

some of these countries have never had such phenomena !!
 

Thread Starter

greenpeace

Joined Sep 22, 2007
30
Question one's answer - yes, burning fossil fuel in industrial quantity is bad


Question two's answer - no worries whatsoever!! We'll run out of fossil fuel in 10 to 30 years. After that, problem goes away. :D
it is not only burning fossil fuel ,
the problem is more than that :(
 

HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
425
I disagree with you
the climate has totally changed , and it will continue changing as the emission of gases will continue >

now , many conutries are exposed to cyclones , floods and other extreme weather conditions >

some of these countries have never had such phenomena !!
I can't remember a time when the climate or the weather hasn't changed. History has recorded many unexpected weather events. In 2004, we had on of the worst huricane season here in Florida, but there has been almost no big storms since (not a bad thing for us :) ).

The world is dynamic, it will continue to change, with or without us. Our contribution is tiny, compared to the forces that have been in motion since long before there was a man to light the first fire.

Think of all the centuries mankind has studied and attempted to influence the weather, and failed. We are no closer today, of producing rain in a drought stricken area, then they were in far past dancing around fires and killing small animals.

The flaw in this global warning scares, is implying that if we stop right now, all problems will immediately just go away. It's pushing for new alternatives, with little regard to impact of these new technologies.

I do believe we need to clean up our mess, and reduce the amount of waste we introduce into the enviroment. Perhaps, these enviromental scare tactics is the only way to motivate people to do what's right, but doesn't seem to have worked much in the past. It's real so simple, every toxin we dump into the enviroment, will eventual find it's way back into our lives. Buried chemicals will leak into the ground water, when diluted enough for organism to survive, it will get passed along the food chain. Being a vegetarian doesn't protect you, actually brings you closer. Plants are a lot more tolerent, and shorter life spans. But then again meat is delibrately saturated with chemicals to enhance and preserve, plus you get whatever toxins were consumed by the animal.
The toxins we release to the air we breath... That's just insane. I'm sure everyone has seen at least one person with an oxygen tank strapped to their back and plastic tubes up their nose...
 

thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,073
it is not only burning fossil fuel ,
the problem is more than that :(
True, fossil fuel accounts for only 83% of the gasses. But once the fuel is gone the "more" will stop too.;) Don't worry, the cockroaches will survive just fine. So will a lot of humans.

How about you, Greenpeace? What are you personally doing to keep the planet cool? (Other than "raising awareness" by chatting on the web?)
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,960
Sort of... it is the degree by which us old fossils add fuel to the debate!:D
Ahhh, to many oldies, is that the problem?! :D My dads and his generation are a classic in this discussion - I come from a traditional milling town so combating climate change here is the most difficult of tasks!

As a serious point, I am interested in (credible) statistics on the climate change debate.

Dave
 

HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
425
How much warmer is it today, compared to the average global temperature on year ago? Is there a website that has a real-time global temperature reading and past log to look this up on? Wouldn't think it very complicated or expensive to setup, and quite useful worldwide. Although, I'd think the actual numbers wouldn't help the claims of catastrophic global warming much...
 

recca02

Joined Apr 2, 2007
1,211
why bother about numbers and figures/statistics?
the point is that it is common knowledge how green house effect works and that alone is enough evidence we need about global warming due to CO2.
venus is hotter than mercury IIRC.
 

Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,960
why bother about numbers and figures/statistics?
Politicians will only act in the face of statistical (and scientific, including analytical) evidence.

the point is that it is common knowledge how green house effect works and that alone is enough evidence we need about global warming due to CO2.
venus is hotter than mercury IIRC.
Whilst the greenhouse effect is understood, isn't the current question: Is the greenhouse effect the principal factor in climate change? And if so, what is the actual human contribution to it climate change?

Do we have an answer to this one way or another? Will we ever have an answer?

Dave
 

FredM

Joined Dec 27, 2005
124
unequivocal YES and YES
I dont think the scale of the problem has even been scratched.. (when I say 'problem' I mean problem for humans and other life on this planet.. The planet will be 'ok' again eventually, and new life will replace that made extinct)..
There are issues which are stark, frightening, and unescapable if REAL action is not taken NOW.. The system has, I believe,gone past the point of no return.. Earth will continue to heat up, this heating will release frozen methyl hydrides trapped in oceans + permafrost, this will (within years, not even decades) dwarf mans output of greenhouse gasses, and it will be exponential.. 30 years from now methane concentrations at sites above large methyl hydride reserves may get to the level where spontaneous combustion occurs - At which point we can probably give up.

I do NOT believe that the adoption of 'green' practices or 'green' technology will be nearly enough to even slow things down noticably.. There is an abundance of absurd claims that we can "save the world by changing to low energy light bulbs" and the like.. These are rubbish.

Technology got us here, it is my opinion that only technology can save us. We are NOT going to slow our pace down, Economic 'growth' will still be the persuit even when it is clear that our destruction is immenent as a result of this folly..

So we will need to use big military / industrial 'toys' which our MORONIC leaders (and masses) can 'understand' and 'relate to' and which can bring 'profit' to rich investors of Mega corperations developing the hardware..

But we need to start this NOW.. Huge R+D investment looking for solutions.. Do we blast a chunk off the moon and create a screen of dust to reflect some solar thermal energy from the earth? Do we devise a LCD like substance we can spread in a monolayer round earth? Do we devise ways of clearing carbon from the atmosphere? - I have absolutely no idea.. But if we had a large object headed for earth, due to impact in (say) 25 years time, and having the capacity to destroy human life, and we knew about it, I believe (hope) we would be doing something to increase our chances of survival..
We are facing an Extinction Level Event.. We need to act on this - Exact date of 'impact' is not known - But it is likely to be in most of our lifetimes, and CERTAINLY in the lifetime of our children.
 

HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
425
Why did Al Gore win the Nobel Prize for his movie? Mostly his role was as an actor reading a script. Haven't watch the movie, figured it was more political, then scientific, but got curious after the award. Al Gore is more of a spokesperson for the group, not a leading contributor.

I still don't believe much of the claims that mankind is causing this, that there is anything we can we can do to slow or stop it. The immediate danger hype sounds more biblical, then scientific. As it has always been, only the strong will survive. Perhaps our best bet is to work on how to survive the global changes.
 

FredM

Joined Dec 27, 2005
124
As it has always been, only the strong will survive. Perhaps our best bet is to work on how to survive the global changes.
Define "Strong" !? - I hope that by now we understand "Strong" to mean WISE, CLEVER, RESOURCEFULL.. "We" may survive as some form of human or evolution from human, but surely this is almost irrelevant..

Everything which makes us what we are as modern humans will be lost if we do nothing or cannot do anything to reduce the scale of the approaching disaster.. All our culture, history, science.. all the development we have made technologically and sociologicaly. I love this earth, and I think humans are wonderful incredible entities - We have evolved to a level where we could rightfully manage the planet for the benefit of all..

Alas, perhaps there are those who are less highly evolved, and dont give a damn about the fact that they are tomorrows ancestors - and perhaps these "strong" people will sucseed in getting their genes into the cruel deprived depleted world which will come if they win.
 

HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
425
The strong would be those most able to adapt to the enviroment. People live in some pretty hostile areas on this planet, where the basic 'big-city' bred people would die in days or weeks at best. Many of the things that make us modern and civilized, is what will keep most from surviving a major disaster. These people on board with the save-the-planet campain are the ones wasting time and resources. This warming trend has been happening for a long time, and will continue regardless. Don't believe it'll be as bad as the hype.
 
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