Glad I'm not a passenger

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,363
R.I.P.
https://www.dvidshub.net/news/48357...lyndsay-miley-evans-and-lt-serena-dug-wileman
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In the world of U.S. Naval Aviation, very few names will be forever imprinted with their squadrons, their communities, and their shipmates. Among them are Lt. Cmdr. Lyndsay “Miley” Evans and Lt. Serena “Dug” Wileman, two highly skilled, combat-decorated aviators who tragically lost their lives during a routine training flight near Mount Rainier on Oct. 15, 2024. More than just names and ranks, they were role models, trailblazers, and women whose influence touched countless people on the flight deck and well beyond.

They had recently returned from a deployment with their squadron, Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 130, “Zappers,” with whom they spent nine months at sea as a part of Carrier Air Wing Three (CVW-3) aboard USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) (IKE). Operating mostly from the Red Sea, they supported Operations INHERENT RESOLVE, PROSPERITY GUARDIAN, and POSEIDON ARCHER, where they were involved in the most dynamic combat action in defense of the strike group and freedom of navigation since World War II.

During their deployment, both Evans and Wileman distinguished themselves in combat operations. Their efforts directly contributed to the Navy’s mission defending U.S. and Coalition forces while keeping the seas open and free with precision and purpose. These role models cemented legacies by making history that will inspire future generations of Naval officers and aviators.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,340
R.I.P.
https://www.dvidshub.net/news/48357...lyndsay-miley-evans-and-lt-serena-dug-wileman
View attachment 334109

In the world of U.S. Naval Aviation, very few names will be forever imprinted with their squadrons, their communities, and their shipmates. Among them are Lt. Cmdr. Lyndsay “Miley” Evans and Lt. Serena “Dug” Wileman, two highly skilled, combat-decorated aviators who tragically lost their lives during a routine training flight near Mount Rainier on Oct. 15, 2024. More than just names and ranks, they were role models, trailblazers, and women whose influence touched countless people on the flight deck and well beyond.

They had recently returned from a deployment with their squadron, Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 130, “Zappers,” with whom they spent nine months at sea as a part of Carrier Air Wing Three (CVW-3) aboard USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) (IKE). Operating mostly from the Red Sea, they supported Operations INHERENT RESOLVE, PROSPERITY GUARDIAN, and POSEIDON ARCHER, where they were involved in the most dynamic combat action in defense of the strike group and freedom of navigation since World War II.

During their deployment, both Evans and Wileman distinguished themselves in combat operations. Their efforts directly contributed to the Navy’s mission defending U.S. and Coalition forces while keeping the seas open and free with precision and purpose. These role models cemented legacies by making history that will inspire future generations of Naval officers and aviators.
The question must be asked: was the crash DEI related?
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,363
The question must be asked: was the crash DEI related?
No. Training is dangerous.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/naval-aviators-identified-mount-rainier/
Naval aviators killed in Mount Rainier crash flew dozens of combat missions over Red Sea
Lt. Cmdr. Lyndsay "Miley" Evans and Lt. Serena "Dug" Wileman both flew dozens of combat missions against Houthi rebels in Yemen from aboard the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower.
During the deployment, Evans was awarded two Single Action Air Medals with Combat “C” devices, an indication of having flown on two particularly difficult or meaningful missions, along with three Strike-Flight Air Medals. Evans was also a graduate of the 12-week HAVOC course at NAS Fallon, the “Top Gun” school of the Growler community. She was named the Growler Tactics Instructor of the Year for fiscal year 2024. Evans’ other awards also include a Combat Action Ribbon.

Wileman, a pilot since 2022, earned a Combat Action Ribbon and three Strike-Flight Air Medals on the Red Sea deployment.
https://www.airpac.navy.mil/Organization/Electronic-Attack-Squadron-VAQ-130/About-Us/

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https://www.twz.com/37053/the-ea-18...-for-electronic-attack-instead-of-dogfighting
In addition to the GTI course at Fallon, the Navy has a Growler Electronic Attack Weapons School (EAWS) at NAS Whidbey Island, Washington, which is co-located with the type’s operational and training squadrons. This school was first established as the Weapons “Cage” of Attack Squadron VA-128, the “Golden Intruders,” in 1974 to provide refresher and advanced courses for Grumman A-6 Intruder ordnance personnel. This evolved into a course for weapons and advanced strike planning, including the addition of the EA-6B Prowler, the predecessor of the Growler.
 
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WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,953
The question must be asked: was the crash DEI related?
Why must it be asked?

If the two aviators had been white males from Georgia, would the question have to be asked whether the crash was hillbilly related?

The simple reality is that military aviation training, particularly in the U.S., is extremely dangerous -- in fact, most aviators that have flown in combat say that combat flying was less intense and less dangerous than the training they went through it to get there, and the fatality rates generally support that notion. One of the big lessons that came out of the early Vietnam years was that you can't bend over backwards to make your training programs ultra safe and then expect people to be able to operate at the edge of the performance envelope in combat -- and that is exactly where they have to operate because even if they aren't willing to push the limit of themselves and their equipment, their adversaries are. So all branches of the U.S. military accepted that higher casualty rates in training was the price that had to be paid to ensure maximum effectiveness in actual operations, particularly in the opening weeks and months when your forces would consist almost entirely of people with no actual combat experience. The effectiveness of this doctrine can be summed up in two words: Desert Storm.

Given the information about the records of these two pilots, I certainly see nothing that would lend credence to such a question. So if you want to put it forward, perhaps you should do some legwork to establish why that question must be asked of these two pilots and this incident.

I do think that, from a newsworthiness standpoint, we need to get to the point where we stop writing news stories, good or bad, just because the pilots were female (or black, or homosexual, or fill-in-the-blank) unless that is actually relevant to the story and not the usual sideshow that has no bearing. These were two naval aviators that, like many before them and many more to come, were killed on a training exercise. They should receive no more and no less coverage than any other similar event. Only then will they be properly honored and remembered for what they were -- professional naval aviators that were willing to put everything on the line to remain prepared to act immediately in this nation's defense.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,340
No. Training is dangerous.
Why must it be asked?
Every single job today in corporate America or the armed forces that is not held by a white, straight man comes with an asterisk.

When your selection criteria is not "who is most likely to survive dangerous training" but "did the candidate select the correct boxes based upon some external unrelated characteristic", the pool from which to select qualified candidates is reduced.

In addition, in order to increase the size of the selection pool when selecting for other than merit, standards necessarily have to be lowered.

This is why the question must be asked.

If these two flyers met the same physical, mental, and competence requirements that any straight white male pilot would have had to meet, and that they were selected on merit with no consideration given that they were women, then I am sorry for their loss and I thank them for their service. Godspeed!

On the other hand, if they were DEI hires, selected because they were women who did not merit such a position except for that they were women, then their lives were sacrificed in the name of political expediency. That would be evil.

I expect accusations of sexism, racism, and any number of phobias now. Bring it on.


Edit: My daughter was invited to apply to West Point. 20 years ago, I would have urged her to go, and I would have been proud had she been selected.

Today, I will not permit it. I don't believe the military has their soldiers' best interests at heart.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,363
Every single job today in corporate America or the armed forces that is not held by a white, straight man comes with an asterisk.

When your selection criteria is not "who is most likely to survive dangerous training" but "did the candidate select the correct boxes based upon some external unrelated characteristic", the pool from which to select qualified candidates is reduced.

In addition, in order to increase the size of the selection pool when selecting for other than merit, standards necessarily have to be lowered.

This is why the question must be asked.

If these two flyers met the same physical, mental, and competence requirements that any straight white male pilot would have had to meet, and that they were selected on merit with no consideration given that they were women, then I am sorry for their loss and I thank them for their service. Godspeed!

On the other hand, if they were DEI hires, selected because they were women who did not merit such a position except for that they were women, then their lives were sacrificed in the name of political expediency. That would be evil.

I expect accusations of sexism, racism, and any number of phobias now. Bring it on.
I attribute your questions to ignorance, not malice. I completely oppose DEI and I consider the linking of these two fallen shipmates to DEI hiring as Fake News at its worse.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,340
I attribute your questions to ignorance, not malice. I completely oppose DEI and I consider the linking of these two fallen shipmates to DEI hiring as Fake News at its worse.
Ignorance, yes. I know nothing about these two ladies.

Fake news, no. I barely skimmed the article(s) you posted. I've read or seen no reports suggesting DEI.

I made no accusations. I just said the question must be asked. And I mean it.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,363
Ignorance, yes. I know nothing about these two ladies.

Fake news, no. I barely skimmed the article(s) you posted. I've read or seen no reports suggesting DEI.

I made no accusations. I just said the question must be asked. And I mean it.
OK, question asked, answered, done.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,363
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...-at-officers-only-crews-for-rok-navy-vessels/
South Korea looking at Officers-only Crews for ROK Navy Vessels
Additionally, the ROK Navy states that ship duties, which require a high level of expertise, should be assigned to petty officers and officers who serve for longer periods, rather than enlisted sailors with a 20-month service term. This shift, they believe, is essential for maintaining the Navy’s operational readiness, which is crucial for ensuring constant operational capability. The Navy views this approach as necessary to tackle ongoing challenges, and additional increase in regional security threats such as North Korea’s nuclear development and provocations that threaten peace around the Korean Peninsula.
I mean, somebody has to paint and clean toilets.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,363
https://fortune.com/2024/10/16/us-pto-director-kathi-vidal-tesla-ai-makes-everybody-tall-white-man/

U.S. PTO director says Tesla AI turns everybody into a tall white man
“When I drive, and I see a voluptuous woman walk across the street, Elon depicts her as a tall white man,” Vidal said at the event in Laguna Niguel, Calif. “Really, the AI recognizes everybody as tall white men,” she added. Vidal has since ordered a Tesla Roadster, but she gave Musk a personal warning: “Elon, if you’re listening, I’m going to withdraw my money if you don’t change that,” she said.
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This must be fixed, today.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,363
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...flight-moved-first-class-coach-law-rcna176994
French bulldog dies on Alaska Airlines flight after being moved from first class to coach, lawsuit claims
Michael Contillo said his dog Ash was deemed healthy for travel, but the dog became anxious and started to breathe quickly after he was asked to move to coach last minute.
The suit said that he followed Alaska Airlines’ policy, reserving both in cabin dogs ahead of the flight by calling and reserving the first-class space, paying an additional $100 per dog at the airport, and transporting the dogs in carriers compliant with size requirements.

They were initially placed in the fourth row.

However, shortly before take off, “an Alaska Airlines flight attendant and another unknown male employee of Alaska Airlines asked the Plaintiff and his father to move to aisle 11 of the Plane for safety purposes,” the complaint said.
I expect this to be settled quickly as Alaska Airlines will be destroyed in court on this case.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,953
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...flight-moved-first-class-coach-law-rcna176994
French bulldog dies on Alaska Airlines flight after being moved from first class to coach, lawsuit claims
Michael Contillo said his dog Ash was deemed healthy for travel, but the dog became anxious and started to breathe quickly after he was asked to move to coach last minute.


I expect this to be settled quickly as Alaska Airlines will be destroyed in court on this case.
It doesn't say what the safety reasons were, so it's hard to tell if they were justifiable or not. The reason for the move might have had nothing to do with the dogs. People are sometimes asked to move, for instance, to ensure compliance with weight and balance limits. Of course, if that happened to be the case, they could have moved someone else instead.

Even if the reason was completely justified (perhaps the dog carrier, in that position, violated some regulation because it was blocking something that wasn't allowed to be blocked), the airline would be ill-advised not to settle it quickly. It's an almost-guaranteed loser in front of a jury, regardless of the merits of the case.
 
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