note that all tools need to be grounded, not just the soldering iron.

a while ago i run into an issue and it turned out that the tweezer was occasionally zapping components. it was a curved tip stainless steel tool but with the painted handle with ESD printed on it... but ... the paint was an insulator so having wrist strap did not help. so every now and then tweezer was placed on the desk rather than on ESD matt. even slight dragging/sliding across the wooden desk surface was enough to charge it. after finding out what was the issue, i got large mat to cover entire surface of the desk. same goes for the solder wire, spool is grounded and if i am using just a piece, an alligator clip is attached to the end.

also check resistance of packaging of the ESD sensitive components. parts sliding out of the bag or tube are building static charge due to friction. if the conductivity of the packaging is not low enough this is an issue. this is why anything used for transport/moving need to be ESD safe too. rolling carts may be metal but are the wheels ESD safe? drag chains do help but they are not very reliable if the the conductivity of floor is decent. continuous wire is always a better solution.

 

note that all tools need to be grounded, not just the soldering iron.

I suppose you're talking about hand tools. In general, hand tools are close enough to ground (or the same potential) when held. Paint can certainly be an insulator but I find it hard to imagine stainless steel being high on the triboelectric scale (TBES)to cause enough charging to damage electronics. In fact, SS isn't even listed as a charge holder. It might have been the paint. But even wood, pine in the chart, is very close to the mid range of TBES to be almost safe. But then again I've seen stranger things. Once, while witnessing a satellite under test, a technician wheeled an ESD cart past the satellite during the test and the test failed. It was, and probably still is, assumed to be caused by the emitted charged field of static the cart had accumulated because it wasn't grounded. They investigated the chain that drags on the conductive floor and found it to have substantial rust between the links forming an insulator. The satellite is designed to operate on solar power, meaning extremely low currents. Much of the electronics in such a case can be sensitive to static charges as low as 50 VS. General hobbiest electronics rarely if ever are that sensitive.

While I can't dispute your claim of ESD being caused by your tweezers I tend to believe the failure may have occurred due to other means. But I can't prove that either. So I take you at your word. But in general, hand tools are usually drained of any residual charges when coming into contact with a human who is properly grounded. I don't doubt your claim, I just find it a bit of a stretch to believe.

 

I wouldn't sweat too much over this. Just exercise practical ESD practices.

1) Receive and store electronics in anti-static bags/rail/foam/containers etc.
2) Wear anti-static wrist-band at the workbench.
3) If you have to get up and retrieve components from a different location, ground yourself before reaching for components.
4) Transport components in anti-static foam/bags/containers.
5) Use an anti-static mat when working with electronics.
6) Use grounded soldering stations.
7) Reduce electrostatic build-up by raising humidity level in winter. Don't wear wool sweaters. If you have to remove any clothing at any time, ground yourself after doing so.

 

I suppose you're talking about hand tools.

that is correct

In general, hand tools are close enough to ground (or the same potential) when held. Paint can certainly be an insulator but I find it hard to imagine stainless steel being high on the triboelectric scale (TBES)to cause enough charging to damage electronics.
...
I just find it a bit of a stretch to believe.

i hear you...

i also have no tools/measurements to prove it - but if someone nearby has the ESD event detector to bring or loan to me, i would be happy to revisit the issue.

but i know what happened before and after.

soldering iron, reflow station, psu, ESD mat, wrist strap were all grounded....
the wooden desk had clear shiny coating... some sort of lacquer.
there was no issue with metal tweezer but tools get old and always gets new ones...
including the color coded set of tweezers. then things start to go wrong and few parts destroyed over just one week.

not a disaster but i wanted to know why.

did not have the issue before. so another 3 out of 10 parts were destroyed on purpose while testing the idea.
next one was destroyed by pulling the DMM across the desk surface by leads and then touching the board that was just working with the DMM probe.

after grounding tweezer i only used bench DMM (not moved) and there was 0 zapped parts
the full size antistatic mat came in about week later. and fortunately things stayed that way...

so may not be the most rigorous way to test thing but for me that pretty much covers it.

btw, i recall watching videos on ESD, i think it was one by https://dangelmayer.com/
they put couple of small metal parts (nuts and bolts) into a small plastic pill box and shook it.
couple of feet away ESD detector was going off... so i wanted one of those until i saw the price

 

Can you provide a photograph of your work station? There may be other issues you are not yet aware of.

Your bench is pine as you said. It's coated probably with Poly Urethane. I'd imagine that might be one issue. But again, I'd place that fairly low. The DMM has a plastic housing. Mine also has a rubberized protector on it. That could be another issue. Styrofoam cups present a huge danger to electronics. CRT's (old computer monitors, the big heat beasts) can emit a ton of charge as well.

Weather conditions and indoor temperature as well as humidity can be yet another important factor. Dry weather is highly conducive to producing ES Charges. My wife had a plastic floor protector at her office desk. When sitting at the station wearing socks, sliding your feet on the plastic always resulted in a very sensational static discharge to the keyboard when touched. She got rid of the plastic mat and has never had that issue again. You already know clothing can be yet another factor. There's lots to consider. A picture would paint a thousand words.

 

Holder or other, the iron's TIP should be internally grounded. If not - grounding the holder will do nothing. If so - grounding the holder is a moot point.

This is a reasonable (and obvious) point. I don’t think it is necessary, and I haven’t done it on my own station. I suggested it to the TS because he gives the impression of wearing suspenders (braces for speakers of British) with his belt—and this was a low impact and available addition to the regime.

It could also provide a convenient way to discharge non-ESD-protected metal tools such as tweezers and screwdrivers without relying on your own body to do it.

So, in the end it isn’t a primary focus, just an ancillary opportunity.

 

I wouldn't sweat too much over this. Just exercise practical ESD practices.

1) Receive and store electronics in anti-static bags/rail/foam/containers etc.
2) Wear anti-static wrist-band at the workbench.
3) If you have to get up and retrieve components from a different location, ground yourself before reaching for components.
4) Transport components in anti-static foam/bags/containers.
5) Use an anti-static mat when working with electronics.
6) Use grounded soldering stations.
7) Reduce electrostatic build-up by raising humidity level in winter. Don't wear wool sweaters. If you have to remove any clothing at any time, ground yourself after doing so.

Awesome appreciate it, if I have to get up and retrieve components would removing the strap to go get them across the room ( housed in ESD safe bags the metallic type not the dissipative pink ones that are stored in a regular plastic tote) grabbing them in the ESD bag getting back to the station putting the ESD wristband back on after placing the components in the bag on the mat be good enough to open the bag after that and have at it ?

 

This is a reasonable (and obvious) point. I don’t think it is necessary, and I haven’t done it on my own station. I suggested it to the TS because he gives the impression of wearing suspenders (braces for speakers of British) with his belt—and this was a low impact and available addition to the regime.

It could also provide a convenient way to discharge non-ESD-protected metal tools such as tweezers and screwdrivers without relying on your own body to do it.

So, in the end it isn’t a primary focus, just an ancillary opportunity.

Understood is a ring terminal and wire to the screw on the outlet cover the mat is grounded to sufficient for grounding the bronze wool holder or does the wire need to go back to the banana jack grounding snap that's on the mat that runs to the same outlet ?

Does anyone else bother grounding the solder spool or does he just mean having the spool on the mat ?

What station do you use again ? The same haako ?

 

Welcome to AAC.

You might be making more of the ESD problem than is warranted. While CMOS devices are definitely very vulnerable, in the absence of bas conditions (e.g.: flooring or carpeting favorable to triboelectric charging, very low humidity, some unfortunate choice for a benchtop, &c.) effective ESD protection is not very hard.

The key elements are:

• Controlled humidity—this might be hard in winter when the cold outdoor temperatures lead to depletion of the moist in the indoors air. Ideally, you want about 50% but it is really a concern when it drops to ~20% or less. It’s a health concern as well!
  
  
• Avoid synthetic fiber clothing, carpet, and cloths as well as non-conducting plastic work surfaces. Your wooden bench is fine, and even if you only have a mat big enough to work on its fine.
  
  
• A good, low impedance earth ground—mitigation depends of this, and you can’t assume the green wire in your outlet is appropriate. If you test the path to ground via the outlet and find it wanting, you‘ll need to work out your own. This isn’t too hard—unless you are on an upper floor. It gets more and more difficult the higher up you get, but you might be able to leverage the cold water system, if you have metallic pipes and not PEX.
  
  
• Your work mat needs to be grounded, as does your wrist strap. However both need to be grounded through a 1MΩ resistance! Do not make a direct connection to ground—particularly for the wrist strap. Generally, I advise not to wear a wrist strap except when working with very vulnerable components like CMOS, RAM, &c. Instead, discharge yourself by touch something grounded before you start to handle parts.
  
  
• Make sure your soldering iron‘s tip is grounded.

• Wrist strap safety is very important. As I said above, the connections to earth need to be through a large resistance—1 megohm is standard. This is because if the connection is low impedance a momentary lapse could mean mains or higher voltage finding earth though you. The resistor limits the current to something very safe it such a mistake is made.
  
  
• Testing the connection is also important. In industrial settings, a tester is always present and confirming the proper resistance is in place is required. Unfortunately, though hobbyists lack the economy of scale, we still have the requirements for safety. A commercial tester is expensive, but you might find one on eBay cheap—it’s worth looking. Failing that you can use a DMM by measuring from the back of the snap on the band to the banana plug at the end of the strap.
  
  You should see about 1MΩ of resistance for a good strap. I just looked around the web to see what advice was being given, very sadly the testing was framed as for the protection of the devices, not the user. There was not even any mention of the hazard of connecting yourself to ground like that. Very unsettling.

You can informally survey your room and furniture by trying to get static shocks on items like the bench, Alternatively, you can talk a small neon bulb (NE2) and use it to check for discharge—this hurts less, and you can buy devices cheaply that are just this, an NE2 in a clear tube with metal caps on the ends.

If you are finding a lot of discharges you need mitigation and protection. If not, just take the normal precautions such as discharging yourself before handling things, using a mat, and wearing a wrist strap when dealing with sensitive components. And, apparently, don’t count on advice from the general web to be useful—my brief survey of articles on ESD related topics on semi-technical sites proved depressing.

By finding the green wire grounding wanting what exactly would I need to check for ? I used an outlet tester and it's properly grounded according to that I could check with a meter to see but what should I look for ?

 

Awesome appreciate it, if I have to get up and retrieve components would removing the strap to go get them across the room ( housed in ESD safe bags the metallic type not the dissipative pink ones that are stored in a regular plastic tote) grabbing them in the ESD bag getting back to the station putting the ESD wristband back on after placing the components in the bag on the mat be good enough to open the bag after that and have at it ?

In an ideal setup, you would wear your anti-static strap while at the workbench. Then you unplug the strap and take the strap with you. When you arrive at a component storage bench or area, you plug the strap into a grounded jack. (Or have a strap at each and every location.)

In lieu of a grounded strap, touch any metallic instrument, tool, or workbench that is grounded before reaching for components in ESD-safe bags.

 

not the dissipative pink ones

Pink Polly is NOT ESD Dissipative. Nor is it shielding. The ONLY advantage of PP is that it does not generate static whereas other plastics do. Excluding the metalized bags. The metalized bag creates a Faraday Cage around the sensitive components or assemblies.

if I have to get up and retrieve components would removing the strap to go get them across the room ( housed in ESD safe bags the metallic type not the dissipative pink ones that are stored in a regular plastic tote) grabbing them in the ESD bag getting back to the station putting the ESD wristband back on after placing the components in the bag on the mat be good enough to open the bag after that and have at it ?

Yes, safe. As long as you plug your wrist strap back into the properly grounded ESD station before removing the components.

is a ring terminal and wire to the screw on the outlet cover the mat is grounded to sufficient for grounding the bronze wool holder or does the wire need to go back to the banana jack grounding snap that's on the mat that runs to the same outlet ?

Does anyone else bother grounding the solder spool or does he just mean having the spool on the mat ?

This is WAY overkill. The bronze wool does not need to be grounded because it does not generate or store static charges. Especially if it's merely sitting on your conductive mat. Running a separate wire to ground something can be dangerous. A properly grounded work station should have the mat grounded through a resistor and the wrist strap should have an incorporated resistor as well. This is to prevent danger from accidental electrocution should you come in contact with an energized component such as the primary side of a transformer.

Solder spools grounded? They are automatically grounded the instant you touch them. Provided you're grounded. And even if neither you, the mat, the work station nor any other tools are grounded, the likelihood of the solder spool generating and holding a charge is minimal. Again, the moment you pick it up, even if you're not grounded, you equalize the charges on your body to the spool.

Don't overthink ESD. Don't neglect it but don't go overboard. Here's an example of overdone ESD control: The worker is nude and sits on a steel stool that is grounded. The work station is made of steel and is grounded. The humidity is kept high because in dry conditions ESD is more prevalent than in humid conditions. Doesn't that seem a little like "Overkill"? Not to mention the danger of electrocution and sexual harassment. In my case all the girls who love turtles would be after me.

 

In an ideal setup, you would wear your anti-static strap while at the workbench. Then you unplug the strap and take the strap with you. When you arrive at a component storage bench or area, you plug the strap into a grounded jack. (Or have a strap at each and every location.)

In lieu of a grounded strap, touch any metallic instrument, tool, or workbench that is grounded before reaching for components in ESD-safe bags.

So if the

In an ideal setup, you would wear your anti-static strap while at the workbench. Then you unplug the strap and take the strap with you. When you arrive at a component storage bench or area, you plug the strap into a grounded jack. (Or have a strap at each and every location.)

In lieu of a grounded strap, touch any metallic instrument, tool, or workbench that is grounded before reaching for components in ESD-safe bags.

Would it be equivalent to remove the wrist strap go and get the ESD bags holding the components ( they are stored in a regular plastic tote inside the ESD bags) and then return to the station place the bag on the mat put the wristband back on and then open the bag to remove the components?

 

Pink Polly is NOT ESD Dissipative. Nor is it shielding. The ONLY advantage of PP is that it does not generate static whereas other plastics do. Excluding the metalized bags. The metalized bag creates a Faraday Cage around the sensitive components or assemblies.
Yes, safe. As long as you plug your wrist strap back into the properly grounded ESD station before removing the components.
This is WAY overkill. The bronze wool does not need to be grounded because it does not generate or store static charges. Especially if it's merely sitting on your conductive mat. Running a separate wire to ground something can be dangerous. A properly grounded work station should have the mat grounded through a resistor and the wrist strap should have an incorporated resistor as well. This is to prevent danger from accidental electrocution should you come in contact with an energized component such as the primary side of a transformer.

Solder spools grounded? They are automatically grounded the instant you touch them. Provided you're grounded. And even if neither you, the mat, the work station nor any other tools are grounded, the likelihood of the solder spool generating and holding a charge is minimal. Again, the moment you pick it up, even if you're not grounded, you equalize the charges on your body to the spool.

Don't overthink ESD. Don't neglect it but don't go overboard. Here's an example of overdone ESD control: The worker is nude and sits on a steel stool that is grounded. The work station is made of steel and is grounded. The humidity is kept high because in dry conditions ESD is more prevalent than in humid conditions. Doesn't that seem a little like "Overkill"? Not to mention the danger of electrocution and sexual harassment. In my case all the girls who love turtles would be after me.

Not to mention the danger of electrocution and sexual harassment. In my case all the girls who love turtles would be after me.

Haha that's crazy funny made me chuckle.

So as long as the parts remain in the metallized ESD bags even if I'm not grounded when I go retrieve them ( they would just be stored in a plastic tub) transport the ESD bags containing the components back to the station place them on the mat put the wristband back on I'm good to open the bags.and handle the parts?


Yeah the ESD stuff can be intimidating I won't lie lol.

Any advice for stuff like Arduinos my computer desk is close to my work bench but running a wire to the Arduino to program/ power it would be a pain while maintaining ESD precautions for it ( leaving it on a conductive mat etc ) should I bother trying to protect it ?

The steel wool is the plastic base with the brass holder for the haako FX 951 shown here, so don't bother with the grounding of that since the tip.is grounded ? The brass wool would be in the holder not directly touching the mat does that matter ?

https://hakkousa.com/fx-951-soldering-station.html


Thanks again !

 

Would it be equivalent to remove the wrist strap go and get the ESD bags holding the components ( they are stored in a regular plastic tote inside the ESD bags) and then return to the station place the bag on the mat put the wristband back on and then open the bag to remove the components?

When you walk from point A to point B you can develop an electrostatic charge. Ideally, you want to dissipate that charge before touching any electronic components, bag or no bag.

Any advice for stuff like Arduinos my computer desk is close to my work bench but running a wire to the Arduino to program/ power it would be a pain while maintaining ESD precautions for it ( leaving it on a conductive mat etc ) should I bother trying to protect it ?

Ideally, the Arduino would be connected to the ground of a power supply that is also grounded.

The steel wool is the plastic base with the brass holder for the haako FX 951 shown here, so don't bother with the grounding of that since the tip.is grounded ? The brass wool would be in the holder not directly touching the mat does that matter ?

Every time the grounded soldering iron touches the brass wool it would dissipate any acquired charge on the brass wool.

 

So as long as the parts remain in the metallized ESD bags • • •
transport the ESD bags containing the components back to the station • • •
place them on the mat • • •
put the wristband back on • • •
I'm good to open the bags.and handle the parts?

I've edited your quote to reflect the steps. The last part, your "question", the answer is "Yes. You're good to open the bags."

The bags conduct any static voltages (Vs) around the components. That's the key feature; they protect the components from seeing that hazardous Vs. Once you put the wrist strap on you dissipate the stored Vs from your body to ground. Whether you've put the bags down on the mat or are holding them when you ground yourself doesn't matter. What matters is that you and the components are at the same voltage. In this case, ground, or zero volts.

A couple of things worth mentioning: Clothing - synthetic fabrics can generate LOTS of Vs. Sitting on a chair on carpeting can generate Vs. My wife's office is carpeted. She has one of those plastic carpet protectors she rolls around on. I've sat at her station wearing no shoes. Simply sliding my socked feet on the plastic quickly and painfully produced a static discharge to the keyboard. I convinced her to try it. She immediately got rid of the protector. Had she or I been grounded through a wrist strap we would not have seen any ESD events because the charges would have been rapidly dissipated to ground. Like I said before (in a round-about way) dry air and the wrong garb can be hazardous. Even to turtles.

 

It's good to be conscious of the potential for ESD, but I think you're worrying far too much.

So as long as the parts remain in the metallized ESD bags even if I'm not grounded when I go retrieve them ( they would just be stored in a plastic tub) transport the ESD bags containing the components back to the station place them on the mat put the wristband back on I'm good to open the bags.and handle the parts?

As long as the parts are in antistatic packaging, they'll be protected from ESD even if you or the bin they're transported aren't grounded/antistatic. Just ground yourself or wear an ESD strap before opening the packages and handling the parts.

Any advice for stuff like Arduinos my computer desk is close to my work bench but running a wire to the Arduino to program/ power it would be a pain while maintaining ESD precautions for it ( leaving it on a conductive mat etc ) should I bother trying to protect it ?

I rarely used a power supply that has ground connected to earth ground. No AC adapter has its output connected to earth ground and I specifically purchased my last 3 power supplies without ground connections because they put earth ground in the middle these days (which is dumb).

If you're not wearing an ESD strap, just touch something grounded before you handle sensitive components.

 

If you're not wearing an ESD strap, just touch something grounded before you handle sensitive components.

That works. But if like my wife, you do something to build up static then you can expose your components to ESD.

It's good to be conscious of the potential for ESD, but I think you're worrying far too much.

I agree. See post #31

Don't overthink ESD. Don't neglect it but don't go overboard.