A simple question.

Can you (or preferably your electrician) identify every wire connecting in at the fuse (breaker) box you switched off?

 

A simple question.

Can you (or preferably your electrician) identify every wire connecting in at the fuse (breaker) box you switched off?

I can not.

 

Since it appears that you have established that the errant load is actually in your premises, I would suggest that you get a competent electrician to disconnect each load and perform an megger insulation test on the cabling(particularly the underground one). You may have a faulty cable on one or more circuits allowing current to track between active and neutral( I assume you have RCD(or GCFI as you call them). They should of course trip breakers if a leakage path from active to earth is present in you wiring.

I think we will call yet another Electrician, we have had 3 or 4 companies out already.
I will also call an HVAC company to check out all the A/C and heating systems top to bottom.

 

I can not.

I can not.

Our house is 150 years old. It has old and new wiring all over and the breaker box is terribly labeled.. If our upstairs bedroom is off, so is the backroom downstairs, if the bathroom is off so is the room on the other side of the house.. Not much here that makes sense.

 

Why are you going to contact the Attorney General? Your measurement indicates strongly that the increased energy usage is real and that it is in your house. The electric company is only charging you for electrical energy you use in your house. What more do you expect? If you leave your car running all night are you going to go to the Attorney General and claim that the gas station is overcharging you for gas?

This is actually good news, because it means that whatever is happening is happening in YOUR house and that, therefore, YOU have control over it. Now it is time to knuckle down and start troubleshooting it. You might contact a qualified electrician to track down the problem, but that will cost you. Or you can try to do it yourself by applying the steps that I and others have been recommending. Or you could mix the two and try to systematically eliminate some circuits from consideration yourself so that the electrician you are paying can focus on the remaining circuits.

As others have indicated, it is very possible that you have something in your house that, as it ages, is drawing more power. This could be something direct, such as a compressor in an air conditioning system, or it could be indirect, such as duct work, filters, coils, and other things that have become plugged and are causing progressively work efficiency of your heating and/or air conditioning systems.

It was rec'd to contact the AG since the PUC has not been able to help find resolution. I am having the local electrician stop by to look at our line connections on the pole, our seem to have an extra set that none of the neighbors have. I think that the hope was that some more stimulus to the electric company might allow them to help us dig as deep into this as they can, which at this point I believe is farther than they have.
We are and have been paying every bill that has come to this house, but when even a rep from the electric company tells you that you/us are paying a minimum of $150 more than they can come up with when adding up all the interior usage, then that rep is discredited by the same company when pressed, I can't help but feel they know more than they are willing to share.

 

Our house is 150 years old. It has old and new wiring all over and the breaker box is terribly labeled.. If our upstairs bedroom is off, so is the backroom downstairs, if the bathroom is off so is the room on the other side of the house.. Not much here that makes sense.

This isn't that uncommon. Circuits are often spread over some portion of the house -- or more to the point, most rooms are supplied by more than one circuit so that even if one circuit goes there is still power in the room somewhere.

 

It was rec'd to contact the AG since the PUC has not been able to help find resolution. I am having the local electrician stop by to look at our line connections on the pole, our seem to have an extra set that none of the neighbors have. I think that the hope was that some more stimulus to the electric company might allow them to help us dig as deep into this as they can, which at this point I believe is farther than they have.
We are and have been paying every bill that has come to this house, but when even a rep from the electric company tells you that you/us are paying a minimum of $150 more than they can come up with when adding up all the interior usage, then that rep is discredited by the same company when pressed, I can't help but feel they know more than they are willing to share.

What is it that you expect them to do? You've already demonstrated that the meter is not recording energy usage unless it is being used within your house, which they have already determined and informed you of. How is it their responsibility to do anything more? You're actually lucky in that they haven't reported you to the authorities for suspicion of having an illegal pot grow going on in your house based on abnormally high energy usage. I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that you have been on them about this issue has convinced them that you are not.

 

What is it that you expect them to do? You've already demonstrated that the meter is not recording energy usage unless it is being used within your house, which they have already determined and informed you of. How is it their responsibility to do anything more? You're actually lucky in that they haven't reported you to the authorities for suspicion of having an illegal pot grow going on in your house based on abnormally high energy usage. I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that you have been on them about this issue has convinced them that you are not.

It would seem I have struck a nerve, I apologize, we have been through the ringer with this, it has caused great stress in our home and family due to the money this old house continues to suck out of us. We have been diligent and responsible in doing all that we can to find resolution to this, we simply seek advice and help from those I would think have the most knowledge and incite into this arena. I have spent many hours and tears dealing with this. I have called yet another Electrician to come over. We have already had 4 here, that have done all that they can to find the 'problem'. It would seem to all those who have been apart of this mysterious energy sucking issue that there is no answer - I am sure most would agree that there is indeed an answer, it just has not been pinpointed yet. This is why we feel the need to seek more support. Perhaps the responder telling of a friend about 'putting more pressure on the electric company' to finally getting somewhere with skyrocketing bills could describe the avenue of pressure that was successful and acceptable. I refuse to let this go, if I were to do so, in 5 more years our bills will be another $100 or more than they are now. They continue to rise, this didn't just happen overnight. The progression has been over 10 years - creeping up. The cost now is more than twice and three times what we use to pay as well what any other average household pays. I thank you for the insight that all homes are not equal, but they certainly do fall within a range. We have as I have stated before, done many updates - storm windows, insulation, sealing, new appliances, new utilities, and we certainly aren't growing anything...frankly if we were I have a feeling that the cost wouldn't be so upsetting. Setting on a path with the AG or any other outside body is daunting and intimidating, however, I sense that that is the indicator that tells me to move forward with it. I am sure that the Electric company is hoping that we will drop this, to go away. If we were talking about a one time event or even $50 more on our regular bills I would, frankly I have up until now, because they continue to rise...I can't.


At this time, I can only continue to do what I see as next logical steps, I thank you and all the others on this feed for the time weighing in and giving advice and suggestions. I apologize for ruffling any feathers with my inferior knowledge about electricity, I joined your forum in desperate hopes of finding an answer.
-M

 

We really do understand and sympathise with your situation.

But

128 posts and you still seem reluctant to work through systematically to solve the problem.

Each time I have suggested something it has brought useful new information, but taken you a lot of agonising before you actually carried out the simple suggested checks, instead putting lots of effort into other things.

If there are wires into your property you need to know what each and every one does.

Hire a clamp-on current meter and then you will be able to safely measure the current in each one.

Make a list and Log it.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=.....1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..1.21.1375.v_cbc_SrzFs

 

Take the cover off your main breaker panel, shoot a good photo of all the wires and upload it. I once bought an old house that only had a 60 amp service entrance, someone ran an electric dryer to the mains before the main breaker. If you have something like that maybe we can spot it in the photo.

 

Here's another option (if it hasn't already been suggested), but would require dedication from everyone in your household: keep a one-week log of the usage times of every electrical item and, knowing the power ratings of each item, tot up the calculated Watt-hours for comparison with meter readings.

I am having the local electrician stop by to look at our line connections on the pole

Can you shin up the pole (or find a camera with a good zoom lens), take a pic and post it here?

 

I think @strantor gave you the answer way back when. He pointed out it is a 220 volt load of about 25 or 30 amps. So if your house is like mine I only have 4 220 breakers.
Stove - 50 amps
Dryer - 30 amps
Air conditioner (2 of them) 35 amps.
My money is on the air conditioner and the price increase you had sometime after your first reading.
Do you have any other 220 volt breakers? They are the ones with 2 circuit breakers tied together.
I only wish I had your rates.

PS. I use about 1500 Kwh in the summer when every day is over 100. But maybe you have a big poorly insulated house?

 

It would seem I have struck a nerve, I apologize, we have been through the ringer with this, it has caused great stress in our home and family due to the money this old house continues to suck out of us.

It's not a matter of hitting a nerve, it's a matter of trying to figure out what you expect to achieve by your plan of action. What do you think going to the AG is going to do? What are you going to tell them? That something in your house is drawing excessive electrical consumption, that both you and the utility company have determined that it IS something in your house, and not outside, and that because the utility company has the temerity to charge you for the electrical energy consumed within your house that the AG's office should do something about it?

 

So I guess AG is not AudioGuru?

 

I had to interrupt my previous post because my keyboard went all wonky.

I and others have suggested several methods of tracking down the problem and you seem pretty adamant about actually using any of them. It took forever to get you to make the simple (though admittedly inconvenient) test of shutting down all the breakers in your house and seeing if the meter still registers usage. You finally did and it didn't. While there is still a remote chance that the sneak path simply wasn't drawing anything over that entire time span, that is unlikely. So, with that caveat, we can assume that the power IS going through your breaker panel. That's good, because it means it can be isolated to an individual circuit with further testing -- if we can get you to actually do it.

 

I think that having an electrician check your panel with the understanding of your mystery would go a long way towards solving your problems. What else may have occurred at the time of your energy usage increase? You spoke of the power pole. Did your family happen to go on vacation around this time? I have a suspicious mind. Have you asked any neighbors what there power usage is? I also like the idea of that binary test someone suggested. Get an electrician. He probably would have paid for himself already.

 

You say say your bills are now nearly double your expectation.

Please recap on the reasons why you think your electricity meter is reading correctly.

A simple (and cheap) test you could perform would be to run one circuit only (switch everything else off for as long as bearable (overnight?) with a separate power meter connected to that one live circuit. Choose one with a reasonable load.
Such a large difference should easily show up between the two meters, if the company's meter has developed a fault.

 

I hear you loud and clear, I will make a list (from all posts) of all the ideas that we have not entirely done. I think some of the items I have not done, because I am totally frightened by electricity - just shutting down all the breakers made me wince, although the quiet that resulted was nice!

I have two little ones at home with me and plenty of blah blah blah's that side track me..so I ask for your patience with me. If we can resolve this = hallelujah! We have never taken legal action with anyone and we frankly don't want to. I too am of somewhat of a suspicious mind at this point with this, because of the power company's firm belief it was our old chest freezer driving up the cost, when it wasn't they latched onto the idea of poor insulation, when the energy auditor did his 7 hours - he said that wasn't a problem...you get the idea. As well as the Trouble man who climbed the pole and said "there was this one thing..." and then diverted the conversation to when the pole was replaced...and later said 'no there was nothing".

I am calling in one of the higher rated electricians from the Minneapolis, one that apparently is good at trouble shooting. I will go over the list of 'undone' actions and either I or them will do them.

I will also recap then all that we did with results -

I think that having an electrician check your panel with the understanding of your mystery would go a long way towards solving your problems. What else may have occurred at the time of your energy usage increase? You spoke of the power pole. Did your family I thought en to go on vacation around this time? I have a suspicious mind. Have you asked any neighbors what there power usage is? I also like the idea of that binary test someone suggested. Get an electrician. He probably would have paid for himself already.

All the electricians that preformed 'breaker checks' new of our issue going into the checks. They shut all down and then would turn on individual breakers and check the amps.\ I believe it was amps...see I am out of my league here.

All the neighbors have bills and usage of what we had previous to 2005 when the pole was replaced. = literally within $25 - $30 due to rate increase etc.

 

You say say your bills are now nearly double your expectation.

Please recap on the reasons why you think your electricity meter is reading correctly.

A simple (and cheap) test you could perform would be to run one circuit only (switch everything else off for as long as bearable (overnight?) with a separate power meter connected to that one live circuit. Choose one with a reasonable load.
Such a large difference should easily show up between the two meters, if the company's meter has developed a fault.

I don;t think it is reading incorrectly, I suspect something is going totally off the charts - therefore costing us a ton of money..with the 4 'breaker checks' we have had done, and most recently the local electrician borrowed some super expensive monitor device that you can hang on individual lines, we monitored our furnace and our clothes dryer (these were most suspect of not operating efficiently and that we could not plug in with the amp meter ourselves) for 3 or 4 days...neither one was out of line with what is considered normal. I would need to check my notes, but he had said that the furnace was running about $50 dollars worth per month and the dryer was about $25 - $30, added with the rest of the houses use that he had calculated, we came up with about $150 - $170 per month of usage cost - total for the entire house. This is the 3rd electrician with a deduction of cost in this realm....the Field Inspector that the electric company sent out initially when I finally got them to respond - had the same totals as well and had told us that he saw there was at a minimum of $150 and in some cases twice as much on our bills that he could not account for.....the electric company's Field Inspector....who later the manager discredited and said that he didn't have the proper 'forms' to fill out in the field to make this kind of discovery....he wrote down every light bulb, nightlight, fishtank pump, appliance.....same as the others.

Our bills in 2004 -
low = 758 kWh $57.82 for May/June bill
High = 1473 kWh $134.29 August/Sept bill

These at .06 cents per kWh

Current time
low = 1650 kWh $217.84 for April/ May bill
High = 2510 kWh $345.26 for July/August bill

These are at .09 cents per kWh

Remember we have updated all major appliances with Star rated ones...

 

I had to interrupt my previous post because my keyboard went all wonky.

I and others have suggested several methods of tracking down the problem and you seem pretty adamant about actually using any of them. It took forever to get you to make the simple (though admittedly inconvenient) test of shutting down all the breakers in your house and seeing if the meter still registers usage. You finally did and it didn't. While there is still a remote chance that the sneak path simply wasn't drawing anything over that entire time span, that is unlikely. So, with that caveat, we can assume that the power IS going through your breaker panel. That's good, because it means it can be isolated to an individual circuit with further testing -- if we can get you to actually do it.

I don;t think I am not doing what is recommended, I think that i have covered more ground that any household owner I have ever known to this point. I am sure within the many posts there may be some things I missed, I am going to recheck the posts and make a list of all that we haven't tried. There may be some what of a disconnect...(pun intended) between language/words used to describe tests...i.e. binary/ individual breakers.. So I have not intentionally ignored opportunities to try things..I either misunderstood or have assumed (because they involved equipment or pole shimmying) that I would ask the electrician to perform...it took the local electrician 4 weeks to get over here with the high tech monitor they borrowed from another power company to check the furnace line and dryer...first they had to get then figure it out then find time to get here and install, then time to take it back and download the results and then call us with sad results...believe me it is hard to wait -you get it I know..

So I am now on the call back list for yet one more electrician...they were to call yesterday...waiting, waiting...