@Hypatia's Protege

So just something I forgot to mention in last post (1617). Some ppl are asking why they can't just sample line from L2 before rectifier instead of using separate wdg (L3). So I tried to explain how that's problematic cuz of references through bridge but some of them just don't get it! So it's like they think on bridge as like _isolation_ device or something!? So anyhow @theodoravain says to just simulate it their way to show them problem but I say all that would do is prove our point w/o really giving them comprehension! So anyhow sry for giving u more to like u say _sort out_!

HP Now I'm going to say something! This whole series is supposed 2b abt EHT systems! But we're totally getting bogged down on accessory equipment! So for that maybe we should just give them schematic and plans (like for kit) and help if they have problem but totally save teaching design and theory of operation for real subjects of series (like LOPT drivers, and EHT applications and like that)? Just sayin'

 

◊It might be possible to just restore all your past content en masse to thread (then if u wanted, u could just 'weed out' anything u didn't like but we wouldn't insist on that at all!)

◊It's also possible posts would have 2b restored one by one which would be a lot of work for Mod. So if that's case maybe best way is to just restore what you consider highest-value posts?

You are aware that that, my deleted content, took down 6 pages total of this thread aren't you? You guys can do what ever you like, how ever you like. But much of that content ended up just being our bickering.

My way of thinking would be for the deleted content going to you and HP and then you deciding what is relevant or not.

 

Attention: Lori H, Theo V, Babs B, Gary P, et al: Re: ballast-interval adjustment instructions (post #1616) -- The text is now amended to indicate said adjustment (i.e. of R4) pertains to U3 (as opposed to U2) -- many sincere thanks the heads up!

But I also say you're definitely being too gracious taking all the blame! Cuz I say ppl should know that 0.125W resistor is too low power for ballasting optoisolator's LED! Cuz after all we're not here 2 teach Ohm's law!

Yebut... My lackadaisical editing left R10's '0.5W' comment just below R8! -- Note that, unlike values/designations, 'comments' don't follow components during editing...

So to ppl insisting to ask questions by e instead of on thread (which I know as fact that some of you are AAC members) I could be all thin skinned and ragey thinking u don't want 2b associated with us! So instead, (for sake of my BP) I think mostly it's ur embarrassed publicly asking questions u think on as too _basic_? So if that's it plz don't be silly! Nobody's an expert at everything (least of all us)! Nobody's judging you! So when we sometimes _scold_ ppl for not thinking it's always general! Never personal! Unless it's someone we know will take it in friendly spirit intended.

---Emphasis added---

I second that 'motion'!

Here's vry important note to Mod: I hope u don't think I'm like _objectifying_ you by not referring 2 u by your UN! It's just that I don't know if ur ok with that in public discussion of Mod action!

Ditto!

Some ppl are asking why they can't just sample line from L2 before rectifier instead of using separate wdg (L3). So I tried to explain how that's problematic cuz of references through bridge but some of them just don't get it! So it's like they think on bridge as like _isolation_ device or something!? So anyhow @theodoravain says to just simulate it their way to show them problem but I say all that would do is prove our point w/o really giving them comprehension! So anyhow sry for giving u more to like u say _sort out_!

FWIW I agree with @theodoravain! --- Seeing (albeit, in this case, via 'simulation') is believing -- and, not uncommonly, understanding!

This whole series is supposed 2b abt EHT systems! But we're totally getting bogged down on accessory equipment! So for that maybe we should just give them schematic and plans (like for kit) and help if they have problem but totally save teaching design and theory of operation for real subjects of series (like LOPT drivers, and EHT applications and like that)? Just sayin'

While I'm bound to confess such an approach is rather appealing on a number of levels - I fear such represents a 'slippery slope' best avoided! -- While, arguably, we needn't have offered instruction for DIY construction of the LVPSU, the EHT Indicator, etc (i.e. we might merely have cited same as 'required equipment') --once having done so the demands of integrity dictate a 'solid' conceptual approach start to finish! -- IMNSHO 'Youtubing'/'instructablizing' 'the small stuff' would send an appalling message and, IMO, pong of 'sellout'/'galloping hypocrisy' -- all in the name of our trivial convenience!

You are aware that that, my deleted content, took down 6 pages total of this thread aren't you? You guys can do what ever you like, how ever you like. But much of that content ended up just being our bickering.

---Emphasis added---

Hey, @shortbus -- I must respectfully disagree with the bolded/emphasized portion of your above quoted text! -- IIRC your participation on this thread spanned greater than two years prior to your withdrawal (last December) -- all but the last few weeks of which being 'bicker free'

To clear the air on a critical point: We do NOT equate genuine disagreement with 'bickering'! --- As a 'for instance' we did not regard your advocacy of DSTs or automotive 'ignition coils' as 'bickering' --- In point of fact I'll grant that your misapprehension of our design goals likely owed --in no small measure-- to our failure to get our 'mission statement' 'out there' via proper 'anchorage' of the tutorial text (as you pointed out)!

Come to that even the 'price and wage' discussions were all of civil and germane to this thread (given that component, tool and service 'affordability'/availability is a major area of concern with many readers) -- Until it became 'personal' (as it did on BOTH sides).

My way of thinking would be for the deleted content going to you and HP and then you deciding what is relevant or not.

While your offer is most kind and gracious, having discussed this with @Aleph(0) we must decline on the following grounds:
First and foremost -- We are with neither moral right nor moral authority to censor your contributions! -- Should your content indeed be fully restorable (and should you authorize such restoration), you are, of course, free to delete anything you are uncomfortable with -OR- merely leave it 'on the record' - as you choose -- Sans prejudice from any of us! --- Come to that, much of the 'contentious content' is yet on the thread in 'quotes' of your posts by Aleph and myself

Hey @shortbus? In case you're concerned that 'reappearance' of past bickers might 'stir old resentments' - please don't be! Our weariness of wincing at our hard words/reactions precludes any desire to revisit -let alone 'relive'- those old posts!


With utmost sincerity
HP

 

Should your content indeed be fully restorable (and should you authorize such restoration), you are, of course, free to delete anything you are uncomfortable with -OR- merely leave it 'on the record' - as you choose -- Sans prejudice from any of us! --- Come to that, much of the 'contentious content' is yet on the thread in 'quotes' of your posts by Aleph and myself

Like I said in the previous post I'm willing to let you two be the judge of what is and isn't relevant. With no limitations. I just don't know how it can be put back in the post order , the order it was posted?

or automotive 'ignition coils'

And I still disagree on your linking the new "E" core ignition coils with the old cylinder style. While both are called ignition coils they are not the same magnetically. And some even have a magnetic gap just like you're doing.

 

Like I said in the previous post I'm willing to let you two be the judge of what is and isn't relevant. With no limitations.

Very well then - We're cool with restoring everything and content with letting the past be the past (Note: @Aleph(0) and I have discussed and concur on this point - hence my confident use of '"we're").

I just don't know how it can be put back in the post order , the order it was posted?

That, of course, depends upon the the fora software (i.e. XenForo) and the amount of work such would entail for the Moderator -- FWIW, It has been my experience (Re: other platforms) that 'deleted'/'pre-edit' content is merely 'moved' to a 'thread edit history'/moderation cache (à la a 'snapshot' of the entire thread, as it were) from which it may be restored - original order 'intact' -- That said, I've no experience with XenForo nor am I certain that individually deleted posts may be simultaneously restored... --- Failing all else, I'm quite hopeful that your posts containing plans, techniques, suggestions, etc may be restored sans unreasonable burden on the fora staff...

FYI -- @Aleph(0) plans to open the (previously discussed) PM sometime tomorrow (Wed) evening - please check your PM inbox when/if you look in Thursday morning (alerts don't always work)...

And I still disagree on your linking the new "E" core ignition coils with the old cylinder style. While both are called ignition coils they are not the same magnetically. And some even have a magnetic gap just like you're doing.

Succinctly --Re: Our application-- the principal difficulty with ignition coils (of all 'castes') lies in their non-amenability to forward transformation schemes and high frequency operation (owing, principally, to their rather low turns ratio (typically in the 'neighborhood' of 1:100 ) and very low 'volume resistivity' core material (laminated iron/steel)...

While it is certainly true that LOPTs are likewise employed in 'flyback' (i.e. 'energy storage') topologies in their original application -- Their significantly greater secondary turns count and high volume resistivity core material (among other desirable characteristics) favors re-purposing for forward transformation operation at notably higher frequencies (tens of kHz) than practically achievable with ignition coils...

IOW -- Gives us sine waves or give us... Uh-Oh!... time for my meds! Get me goin' 'bout my hobbies and it happens every time!

But hey! In all seriousness! If you are aware of an 'ignition coil' product featuring a ferrite core and readily re-windable primary -- Please tell us about it!

Very best regards
HP

 

ATTN - Readers experiencing difficulty with U2 (i.e. the linear EMF regulator)...

Please use the component shown on the schematic (to wit: the LM7809 linear regulator as opposed to the LM2940CT-9 'LDO')!

Why?

1) LDO's require large, ESR-critical output bypass Caps for stable operation and acceptable transient response (22μF min {per spec} howbeit, as a practical matter, Ca 50μF is acceptable transient response to be realized) . ---Be advised that, as the 'plaintiffs' have discovered to their cost, insufficient output bypass capacitance will result in oscillation in all cases!

2) Said devices feature rather high 'collateral current demand' by comparison with 'standard' LM78xx devices -- with correspondingly precipitous VCC collapse at power-down -- As previously discussed, it is desirable that the softstart circuit has sufficient time (a few ms of VCC>5V) to fully discharge the timing caps (i.e. C1 and C2).

3) The circuit in question is with requirement of neither LDO regulators nor their 'agro'!

So... You may recover your wrongfully binned, perfectly functional LDO regulators, if desired, test them under specified operating conditions (including appropriate output bypass capacitance) then set them aside for projects genuinely requisite of low-dropout EMF regulation!

Schematic included for reference:

Very best regards
HP

 

@Hypatia's Protege and @shortbus Just head's up to say that I just started PM with Mod (abt content restoration) with both of you as parties to it!

While I'm bound to confess such an approach is rather appealing on a number of levels - I fear such represents a 'slippery slope' best avoided! -- While, arguably, we needn't have offered instruction for DIY construction of the LVPSU, the EHT Indicator, etc (i.e. we might merely have cited same as 'required equipment') --once having done so the demands of integrity dictate a 'solid' conceptual approach start to finish! -- IMNSHO 'Youtubing'/'instructablizing' 'the small stuff' would send an appalling message and, IMO, pong of 'sellout'/'galloping hypocrisy' -- all in the name of our trivial convenience!

HP that's something we definitely need 2 talk more abt! Cuz I say w/o adhering to scope we'll NEVER get ANYTHING done! I say it's exactly same principle as train that keeps slowing down so destination is always an hour down the line! So I don't have time now but we really need to work this out and I say right out in open on here is totally best place so readers can have opportunity to share their opinions abt it!

 

Re: Appropriacy of elaboration upon design, construction or procurement of equipment ancillary to the 'central' focus of this series (e.g. low 'voltage' power supplies, EHT test equipment, vacuum potting equipment, special/alternate tools/materials, etc...)

HP that's something we definitely need 2 talk more abt! Cuz I say w/o adhering to scope we'll NEVER get ANYTHING done! I say it's exactly same principle as train that keeps slowing down so destination is always an hour down the line!

Very well (i.e. I see your point) -- That said such must be manifest as discretion as to which topics we choose to elaborate upon --as opposed to-- 'skimming over' same once the decision to elaborate has been taken!

For all that, it is my stance that we've chosen well thus far -- Clearly, one would not reasonably expect the following items to be 'commonly available', inexpensive or in the possession of (or otherwise readily accessible by) the majority of our readers:

1) A 0v-100kV DC EHT indicator featuring user-selectable balanced and ground-referenced 'modes'...

2) An adjustable, well-neigh 'bullet proof' 0V ~ 80V (@>50A intermittent) 'battery eliminator' (i.e. unregulated, high current DC PSU).

3) Active LOPT test drivers (as opposed to 'ring testers' and similar expedients).

I shouldn't think I need advise you that what's 'passable' for repair of proven designs is quite often poorly applied to new design/R&D...

Very best regards
HP

 

Ya know? Having verily 'chased' Theo away based upon 'attitude', perhaps some introspection is in order?

Yeah.. Well.. Hey @Julie? Here's all I've got on that head: If "sloanie" is as bad as epithets get for you, you're living a charmed life!

Greetz all and sundry
HP wants you to know she and Julie haven't forsaken you! They'll be back "sure as the dust that lufts high in June" in the deserts of the Indian subcontinent. Well.. Really.. They're merely embroiled in their prosaic empty little lives in that vacuum known to the intrepid as The Real World. Look for Julie on Sunday and HP when you see her next post

Oh, yeah! HP also wants you to know that all content by @shortbus is back online! Thanks y'all! I dig mended fences

Thanks!

 

Thanks y'all! I dig mended fences

It really helps when the guy sneaking in at night isn't able to pull out the fence posts anymore.

 

It really helps when the guy sneaking in at night isn't able to pull out the fence posts anymore.

"The man who rides the fence gets nothing but a sore crotch." ---Baxter Black

 

"sure as the dust that lufts high in June" in the deserts of the Indian subcontinent.

Theo I say is hilarious that I'm like 5 yrs younger than u and still have better appreciation of the classics!

If "sloanie" is as bad as epithets get for you, you're living a charmed life!

Theo I totally agree it's way better than other _S word_ (which I get called too) So it's totally abt ppl being too busybody judgmental of other ppl's lifestyle even when it doesn't effect them at all!

Look for Julie on Sunday and HP when you see her next post

Theo that's right! I should totally have some time Sunday night and early Monday AM and HP should be back on Thursday the 11'th!

Oh, yeah! HP also wants you to know that all content by @shortbus is back online! Thanks y'all! I dig mended fences

Theo, me too! So HUGE TNX to mod who did a lot of work 2 make it happen! So I totally want to tag him on here 2 give credit where it's due but I'm just not 100% sure that would be _kosher_ cuz of rules abt discussing moderation on public forum But anyhow, Theo I'll definitely add u to PM so u can have like _lowdown_!

It really helps when the guy sneaking in at night isn't able to pull out the fence posts anymore.

Shortbus I say ur 100% correct cuz that totally _encapsulates_ everything that's wrong abt political fanaticism! Cuz its whole objective is turning ppl against each other and engendering and maintaining hard feelings between friends!

Now I'm going 2 say something! So 2 start o/c everyone knows we're talking abt TCM! So anyhow at 1'st I was totally grateful for his _anti-politics_ thread and after that was closed his PM thread that from my POV was huge factor in closure of political bicker threads! So looking back now I can totally see how my gratitude abt that let me basically turn blind eye to his extremely offensive remarks (like, for example, being proponent of human eugenics)! Cuz whenever HP and I challenged him on that kind of BS he'd just say it was _joke_ but now I think it was more like _recalabration_ reaction to negative response! So FWIW based on his posts b4 he went all political I say he's basically a decent guy but politics is like mind bending, addictive habit to some ppl! And like everybody knows _toxic addict_ is just a vry unhappy person that lives only for next _fix_ no matter what (which for _politics addict_ means creating contentious totally hostile environment for everybody around them) So in case TCM sees this somehow I say PLEASE just ask yourself if that's really who you are or want 2 be? Cuz I'm totally betting that in your heart of hearts it ISN'T!

"The man who rides the fence gets nothing but a sore crotch." ---Baxter Black

KL7AJ just so u know I was going 2 make _wise remark_ abt relative merits of barbwire vs electric fence until I remembered my promise of not making anymore risque jokes on here

 

And now back to our previous program.....

While looking in one of my catalogs for something else, I saw something that I think was mentioned earlier in this. It is a fairly inexpensive vacuum chamber to go along with the vacuum pump. I don't think one as good could be built for the same price. But here is a link for your convenience. While not affiliated with the company in any way I am a very satisfied customer for many years.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood-Stabilization-System-8-/T27925
They have a couple of different sizes of these available if this one is too large.

 

And now back to our previous program.....

Sounds like a plan!

While looking in one of my catalogs for something else, I saw something that I think was mentioned earlier in this. It is a fairly inexpensive vacuum chamber to go along with the vacuum pump. I don't think one as good could be built for the same price. But here is a link for your convenience. While not affiliated with the company in any way I am a very satisfied customer for many years.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood-Stabilization-System-8-/T27925
They have a couple of different sizes of these available if this one is too large.

Frankly, I prefer the product linked in your post to our 'solution' (see below) on a number of 'levels' (not the least of which being safety!)-- Unfortunately it has been my experience that such 'conveniences' are unavailable in dimensions suitable to our application?...

if this one is too large.

Sadly, Just the opposite...

Shortbus, should you be aware of a properly constructed vacuum vessel (such as that pointed to by your link) but meeting or 'beating' the following 16L 'Omni-Jug' dimensions -- that'd be grand!

For reference/comparison -- Our solution expedient is the DeRoyal 16 litre 'Omni-Jug'

Approximate dimensions:
ID ≈ 30.5cm (≈12")
Internal depth > 28cm (≈11")
Volume (nominal) ≈ 16L

Pros:
Generous physical dimensions, ready availability and very inexpensive...

Cons:
-Stress checking (possible implosion hazard) requiring donning/application of burdensome PPE during the vacuum processing 'phase' of the potting process... -- While I've not observed implosion (yet) following many tens of cycles on each canister (max temp ≈ 50°C) I, nonetheless, advise extreme caution! Suction units/aspirators are, in essence, little more than 'illustrious hoovers' -- their canisters being neither intended nor tested for/to the low pressures attendant to 'vacuum processing', etc...

-Thermal polymer (PC) construction = decreasing structural integrity with moderate temperature increase.

-Necessary modification of the lid seal for re-usability.

16 liter Omni-Jug (fully assembled)...

Underside of lid -- please note the adhesive 'bead' (to be removed and replaced with a suitable O-ring or other reusable seal)...

Very best regards and many thanks!
HP

PS -- See y'all Thursday!

 

Shortbus, should you be aware of a properly constructed vacuum vessel (such as that pointed to by your link) but meeting or 'beating' the following 16L 'Omni-Jug' dimensions -- that'd be grand!

OK, they have other sizes but they all are the same diameter ~5 1/2", only the height changes. But a quick search gets this - https://www.amazon.com/Slickwoodvac...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G2EJG8ABSDSFFAPRX96G The same page even has some complete systems for a good price, the system includes a vacuum pump.

Or it seems like the other ones use a 'pressure cooker' for the chamber. So for the money challenged of us(I'm one) a pressure cooker/canner from a second hand store would be something else to look into. Even new they are less expensive than my first link - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mirro-2...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COWEr5H88d0CFUFuwQodtiUPhg

 

Cons:
-Stress checking (possible implosion hazard) requiring donning/application of burdensome PPE during the vacuum processing 'phase' of the potting process... -- While I've not observed implosion (yet) following many tens of cycles on each canister (max temp ≈ 50°C) I, nonetheless, advise extreme caution! Suction units/aspirators are, in essence, little more than 'illustrious hoovers' -- their canisters being neither intended nor tested for/to the low pressures attendant to 'vacuum processing', etc...

-Thermal polymer (PC) construction = decreasing structural integrity with moderate temperature increase.

-Necessary modification of the lid seal for re-usability.

HP and @shortbus I totally agree that metal chamber (incl canners and like that) using tempered glass lid is best way! But since biggest consumer grade canner HP can find is still too small I say just suggest doing it your (HP's) way of evacuating OmniJug inside stack of like 3 truck tires for shield and suck inelegance down (pun totally intended)!

ETA
So following from shortbus' links I found 5 Gal chamber (which is abt 19 liters) or 5.5 Gal canner either of which will THEORETICALLY work depending on dimensions! (which they don't specify) So anyhow I say that's definitely something to look into!

 

@Hypatia's Protege So abt _soft start_ circuit IMO it definitely needs two more features:

◊ Indication showing when ballast resistor is not bypassed!

◊Thermal cut-out fuse on ballast resistor in case soft start circuit fails leaving resistor in circuit with PSU loaded! HP I also say that could allow safely using lower power (so physically smaller) ballast resistor including one that can't even continuously handle magnetizing currents of variac and pwr xfmr!

So for availability of thermal fuse, ppl can get them for free from junked microwave cookers!

 

HP and @shortbus I totally agree that metal chamber (incl canners and like that) using tempered glass lid is best way! But since biggest consumer grade canner HP can find is still too small I say just suggest doing it your (HP's) way of evacuating OmniJug inside stack of like 3 truck tires for shield and suck inelegance down (pun totally intended)!

ETA
So following from shortbus' links I found 5 Gal chamber (which is abt 19 liters) or 5.5 Gal canner either of which will THEORETICALLY work depending on dimensions! (which they don't specify) So anyhow I say that's definitely something to look into!

I haven't failed to notice that you and your people are willing to lay down the money for the purpose of this project, if the need for it becomes unavoidable. I'd suggest you give some consideration to using either steel hydraulic tube or pneumatic aluminum tube as vacuum chambers, which can be capped with specially made plates with grooves for o-rings machined in them. Remember I offered you my help in PM? I could help you design those plates, if you first choose the type and size of tube that you think would serve your purposes.

A good supplier for said sort of tubes is www.scotindustries.com, I used their products a while back, and their prices were not so bad.

 

So following from shortbus' links I found 5 Gal chamber (which is abt 19 liters) or 5.5 Gal canner either of which will THEORETICALLY work depending on dimensions! (which they don't specify) So anyhow I say that's definitely something to look into!

I must have missed something in this. I thought the use of the vacuum chamber was to pull some kind of insulating compound into the repurposed LOPT? If so yours must be larger than any I've ever seen.

 

Thanks all! --- Please be advised that I'll adress your kind suggestions, questions and comments toward the end of the week...

Very best regards
HP