MICROWAVE. OVEN. TRANSFORMERS.
JEEZUZ.
If I ever meet you I will shake your hand and then immediately hit you over the head with a MOT.

hahhha nooo man today I ripped open a microwave only to find several tiny transformers. hold on i'll go make a picture now.

these things are sooo tiny one can never work with 35mm2 wires

 

 

https://ascocomponents.co.uk/laminations/

They seem to not list any pricing and from what I saw everything is tiny or custom made.

Although I salute your effort I am looking for large strips that I can then place in different toroidal shapes

 

Before embarking on construction of a solid iron core transformer, I’d recommend you view the youtube video in the link below.

It shows how to construct a transformer bobbin, wind it, and assemble the core laminations.

Importantly, the laminations are in the form of the letter E and I shapes – although in the video, the laminations appear to be have been salvaged from another transformer.

Obviously your transformer will be considerably larger than that shown in the video, but the principles will be the same.

 

hahhha nooo man today I ripped open a microwave only to find several tiny transformers. hold on i'll go make a picture now.

these things are sooo tiny one can never work with 35mm2 wires

You need to find an older microwave. Newer models rectify the incoming mains to DC, then an inverter circuit creates a new (high frequency) AC wave that goes through the transformer. The higher the frequency, the smaller the transformer. Older microwaves pass the incoming mains AC straight through the transformer, so they are much larger transformers.

 

They seem to not list any pricing and from what I saw everything is tiny or custom made.

Although I salute your effort I am looking for large strips that I can then place in different toroidal shapes

If this is the route you want to go, do yourself a favor and get real toroidal transformer lamination strip. "Any ol metal" won't cut it.

 

You need to find an older microwave.

Are you telling me I destroyed my mwave for nothing and now I can eat no more TV dinners for no good reason?

nah just pulling your leg.

I have the following problem;
Even though there are core and coil winding calculators to be found online. It will take me 2 extra life times to understand how to fill in the correct values to get somewhere. So I prefer to go the trail and error route rather than the theoretical route. I believe it will be faster for me.
That means I need to be able to try various permutations of coil size, toroidal circumference, and coil wind count.

In general terms I am hoping that oversizing things will lead to success much faster than calculating things.

The way I think I can do that is to have many rectangular cubes of size let's say 3x3x6cm. And just as with PVC pipes I can then arrange them in any shape and size I please.

If this is the route you want to go, do yourself a favor and get real toroidal transformer lamination strip. "Any ol metal" won't cut it.

So if those "real toroidal lamination strip" ( *citation needed ) building blocks exist then I am all ears

If the core is to be of a fixed size then that will limit the experimentation and fields of application options.

But I have saved the best for last. The biggest problem with a continues closed loop core is that winding coils will take days rather than hours as then one has to weave the wire in it's entire length for each wind.

I'd like to remind everyone though that I am not abandoning the powder core transformer. I think that I at least should give it a fighting chance before I throw it in the pit like a discarded spartan baby.
The solid core I will be building in parallel to the powder core as to be able also to measure the difference in performance.

I actually have a strong believe that the powder will eventually be on permanent stand by waiting to render it's services when the world has gone post apocalyptic.

 

They seem to not list any pricing and from what I saw everything is tiny or custom made.

Although I salute your effort I am looking for large strips that I can then place in different toroidal shapes

UI180 is good for about 4kVA

 

Are you telling me I destroyed my mwave for nothing and now I can eat no more TV dinners for no good reason?

nah just pulling your leg.

Even though there are core and coil winding calculators to be found online. It will take me 2 extra life times to understand how to fill in the correct values to get somewhere. So I prefer to go the trail and error route rather than the theoretical route. I believe it will be faster for me.

I understand, and agree. And this is one of the main reasons I recommend MOTs. All the theoretical stuff has been done already. The core is already properly designed and the primary winding is already a good match for the core. All you need to play with is the secondary winding, and it's impossible to mess that part up. Too much voltage? Remove some turns. Too little? Add some turns.

The way I think I can do that is to have many rectangular cubes of size let's say 3x3x6cm. And just as with PVC pipes I can then arrange them in any shape and size I please.

No. You will have air gaps between all these cubes. It's just like the iron dust transformer except the particles of dust are 3x3x6cm. You will have the same problem you do now. It will be less, but it will still suck.

So if those "real toroidal lamination strip" ( *citation needed ) building blocks exist then I am all ears

If the core is to be of a fixed size then that will limit the experimentation and fields of application options.

There are not really transformer building blocks unless you are talking about.... you guessed it, MOTs.

Did you look at my MOT-powered spot welder thread that I linked to? I'm guessing not, or you would not still be thinking of MOTs as small, inflexible things. The building blocks are the MOTs themselves. You're not limited to just one. My spot welder uses 3 of them and puts out over 5,000 amps.

But I have saved the best for last. The biggest problem with a continues closed loop core is that winding coils will take days rather than hours as then one has to weave the wire in it's entire length for each wind.

Yeah, sucks for the guy who has to wind them without a toroidal transformer winding machine. Remind me again why you want to do that when there are so much easier methods?

I'd like to remind everyone though that I am not abandoning the powder core transformer. I think that I at least should give it a fighting chance before I throw it in the pit like a discarded spartan baby.
The solid core I will be building in parallel to the powder core as to be able also to measure the difference in performance.

I actually have a strong believe that the powder will eventually be on permanent stand by waiting to render it's services when the world has gone post apocalyptic.

Well if people will be eating boot leather, then sure, why not make transformers out of iron powder? But until then...

Ok. I've said all I care to say about MOTs, which is probably 2 pages longer than you care to read about them. If you're still not convinced then no amount of convincing will be effective and I'll just have to make myself content with watching you struggle from afar. Like watching an alcoholic repeatedly go back to the bottle and then wonder why their life sucks.

 

Remind me again why you want to do that when there are so much easier methods?

I really do not. I missed your link to your MOT thread so have not had a chance yet to get familiar with MOT's in fact I still do not know what they are.

It's like I said earlier. I am a slow learner but I will get there eventually.

I'll be reading up on MOT's now.

EDIT: Ahh microwave oven transformer

 

I understand, and agree. And this is one of the main reasons I recommend MOTs. All the theoretical stuff has been done already. The core is already properly designed and the primary winding is already a good match for the core. All you need to play with is the secondary winding, and it's impossible to mess that part up. Too much voltage? Remove some turns. Too little? Add some turns.


No. You will have air gaps between all these cubes. It's just like the iron dust transformer except the particles of dust are 3x3x6cm. You will have the same problem you do now. It will be less, but it will still suck.


There are not really transformer building blocks unless you are talking about.... you guessed it, MOTs.

Did you look at my MOT-powered spot welder thread that I linked to? I'm guessing not, or you would not still be thinking of MOTs as small, inflexible things. The building blocks are the MOTs themselves. You're not limited to just one. My spot welder uses 3 of them and puts out over 5,000 amps.

Yeah, sucks for the guy who has to wind them without a toroidal transformer winding machine. Remind me again why you want to do that when there are so much easier methods?


Well if people will be eating boot leather, then sure, why not make transformers out of iron powder? But until then...

Ok. I've said all I care to say about MOTs, which is probably 2 pages longer than you care to read about them. If you're still not convinced then no amount of convincing will be effective and I'll just have to make myself content with watching you struggle from afar. Like watching an alcoholic repeatedly go back to the bottle and then wonder why their life sucks.

WOW. What an enormously awesome setup you got there.


It is, and hopefully never will be, my intention to outright dismiss suggestions.

Take for example @Hymie 's efforts to get me on the ACS path. Although I did try, please believe me it is not so simple to get it to run on a linux machine, that part of the equation is on hold for now but firmly embedded in the back of my mind.

Also take @Ian0 's suggestion on where to get cores. Although I am probably not going there as I still feel that things are simply not big enough there as far as I could find. It did spark new motivation to go and try manufactures. Currently I have set my hopes on another one from the UK.

One final note is that. Yes I am stubborn. Take my wire size adventure for example. Sometimes I just have to run into a corner to get it out of my system. Otherwise I will never feel comfortable having those thoughts that keep haunting me. I should have tried this I should have tried that and what has one.
I am a bit weird like that.

So please do not take this the wrong way but before I will go MOT style I first have to try something else. Currently MOT just seems not compatible with my way of working.
Yes I will admit that if I have to come back having to tell you guys that I settled on MOT's I will feel all embarrassed. But embarrassment is a price I pay much more gladly than always having this disturbing feeling I should have tried something else first.

That is one aspect of what I meant with being a slow learner. Another is that anytime I see math I get intimidated ;(

I am not ashamed though for being stubborn. It did enable me to have time and means to do a lot of tinkering.

 

And this is one of the main reasons I recommend MOTs. All the theoretical stuff has been done already. The core is already properly designed and the primary winding is already a good match for the core. All you need to play with is the secondary winding, and it's impossible to mess that part up. Too much voltage? Remove some turns. Too little? Add some turns.

My train of thought is to oversize it, don't calculate.
Can this method backfire in terms of core? can one have too much core?

 

WOW. What an enormously awesome setup you got there.


It is, and hopefully never will be, my intention to outright dismiss suggestions.

Take for example @Hymie 's efforts to get me on the ACS path. Although I did try, please believe me it is not so simple to get it to run on a linux machine, that part of the equation is on hold for now but firmly embedded in the back of my mind.

Also take @Ian0 's suggestion on where to get cores. Although I am probably not going there as I still feel that things are simply not big enough there as far as I could find. It did spark new motivation to go and try manufactures. Currently I have set my hopes on another one from the UK.

One final note is that. Yes I am stubborn. Take my wire size adventure for example. Sometimes I just have to run into a corner to get it out of my system. Otherwise I will never feel comfortable having those thoughts that keep haunting me. I should have tried this I should have tried that and what has one.
I am a bit weird like that.

So please do not take this the wrong way but before I will go MOT style I first have to try something else. Currently MOT just seems not compatible with my way of working.
Yes I will admit that if I have to come back having to tell you guys that I settled on MOT's I will feel all embarrassed. But embarrassment is a price I pay much more gladly than always having this disturbing feeling I should have tried something else first.

That is one aspect of what I meant with being a slow learner. Another is that anytime I see math I get intimidated ;(

I am not ashamed though for being stubborn. It did enable me to have time and means to do a lot of tinkering.

I get that. I'm the same way. And being that way makes it doubly frustrating when someone else is that way. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" - this has never sat well with me. Dropping the MOT talk is as hard for me as dropping the iron powder core talk will be for you.

My train of thought is to oversize it, don't calculate.
Can this method backfire in terms of core? can one have too much core?

Yes

 

I get that. I'm the same way. And being that way makes it doubly frustrating when someone else is that way. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" - this has never sat well with me. Dropping the MOT talk is as hard for me as dropping the iron powder core talk will be for you.

Ok, In fear of loosing your imvolvement and in fear of potentially missing out on MOT's as being the best way forward.
Where do I get old mwaves to rip open? that is a starter.
Sure I can go try and buy old ones from a second hand market place but how do I tell if they have big ones or not?

I might end up cutting some of them MOT's up though. As I need some way to get wires through if they are not big enough

 

I get that. I'm the same way. And being that way makes it doubly frustrating when someone else is that way. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" - this has never sat well with me. Dropping the MOT talk is as hard for me as dropping the iron powder core talk will be for you.


Yes

I am in talks now with a company from UK that seem reasonably priced. I will buy a custom made transformer for battery charging. I also asked them core a core I can play with. So I am learning from my mistakes and am listening to you guys.

If I may use your own words that you once comforted me with.
Don't loose heart

 

Where do I get old mwaves to rip open? that is a starter.
Sure I can go try and buy old ones from a second hand market place but how do I tell if they have big ones or not?

That is a good question. I don't know how things work there. I don't remember seeing anything like a garage sale there. Do you have such a thing? Well, wherever you go to buy other people's broken stuff, find the microwaves, lift them up. Are they a big burden to carry? If they are, probably have an old school big transformer. Is it easy to carry home? If so, put it back.

 

too bad, I also do not know of any garage sales over here. We do have this tradition in where anyone is allowed to sell almost anything (within reason and no threat to society) tax free once a year.

But the thing is I will never go to such a flee market again if I can avoid it because... reasons..

 

Full size microwave ovens are typically 1000W. At your 3.6V that is 278A. Why is that insufficient?

Bob

 

Full size microwave ovens are typically 1000W. At your 3.6V that is 278A. Why is that insufficient?

Bob

I am not sure. All I know I ripped open this one.


Only to find components so small I can never fit 35mm2 wires through.

So unless I am missing something obvious to all but me, please tell me. Otherwise I am back to my old habits and just plow through.

 

ahh no, honestly I stopped the ripping once I found a transformer and several lamiated iron core AC motors (these things are COOOL). But since it is still very heavy I will continue then digging for gold. Perhaps there is another transformer inside that I had missed the first time around