Yes, sadly old, likely sick people are dying from COVID infections instead of something else.
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Unfortunately , ~0.0014% is way too high in my opinion. And are you suggesting that it’s ok for the elderly to have another risk for death? Isn’t being old enough?

 

Unfortunately , ~0.0014% is way too high in my opinion. And are you suggesting that it’s ok for the elderly to have another risk for death? Isn’t being old enough?

No but I'm realistic IMO that old people will die from an opportunistic, extremely contagious virus unless they are in total isolation. The Mass government (and the world in general) seems to agree with that from what I can see. The isolation of the elderly from loved ones and family at the first of the pandemic was IMO more horrible to the family and loved ones than the actual death in many cases.

 

No but I'm realistic IMO that old people will die from an opportunistic, extremely contagious virus unless they are in total isolation. The Mass government (and the world in general) seems to agree with that from what I can see. The isolation of the elderly from loved ones and family at the first of the pandemic was IMO more horrible to the family and loved ones than the actual death in many cases.

I understand. My tongue was firmly in my cheek.

 

The isolation of the elderly from loved ones and family at the first of the pandemic was IMO more horrible to the family and loved ones than the actual death in many cases.

Although in principle I do agree with you, you also have to admit that at the moment there was no one (in authority, at least) that knew what they were dealing with. Don't you think?

 

The Doctors and Nurses were clueless for the most part,
( not that that excuses them entirely, they are supposed to know better ),
but ALL the Politicians and Corporate-Talking-Heads, including ALL of the Main-Steam-Media,
either just spewed the lines they were told to, or knew full-well that it was just a giant HOAX.

Roughly ~30% of the delivered Vaccines were purposely developed, and intended as, potentially DEADLY.
Covid it's self was just the usual Flu-Symptoms that most unhealthy people develop every year.
Most people have no clue about the actual state of their Health, or what to do about it.
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Although in principle I do agree with you, you also have to admit that at the moment there was no one (in authority, at least) that knew what they were dealing with. Don't you think?

No, I don't. Bad decisions were made that even separated families at child birth from newborn babies, schools were closed for years, etc ...
No need to rehash what many believed and were proved correct back then when authority horribly overreacted. What's done is done, let's just not go down that path again.

 

No, I don't. Bad decisions were made that even separated families at child birth from newborn babies, schools were closed for years, etc ...
No need to rehash what many believed and were proved correct back then when authority horribly overreacted. What's done is done, let's just not go down that path again.

I am sorry, but you do not know what the result would have been had theses measures not been taken.

The fatality of Covid declined dramatically as we learned to treat it and as the virus evolved to less fatal strains. Had no precautions been taken in the early stages, it stands to reason that many more would have died.

Why am I so certain if this? Here are four reasons:

1. The original virus was more fatal than subsequent strains. The one I eventually got was far less dangerous than the original and it still landed me in the ER.

2. We learned over time which treatments were effective and which were not.

3. We developed better treatments and new drugs over time.

4. The health care delivery system was on the verge of collapse at the time. Double the number of cases and it would have been a total disaster.

Of course mistakes were made, but treating it as no more dangerous than the flu would have been a far larger mistake.

Basically you are saying I should have died and so what? I don’t appreciate that. I would not take your death so cavalierly.

 

I am sorry, but you do not know what the result would have been had theses measures not been taken.

The fatality of Covid declined dramatically as we learned to treat it and as the virus evolved to less fatal strains. Had no precautions been taken in the early stages, it stands to reason that many more would have died.

Why am I so certain if this? Here are four reasons:

1. The original virus was more fatal than subsequent strains. The one I eventually got was far less dangerous than the original and it still landed me in the ER.

2. We learned over time which treatments were effective and which were not.

3. We developed better treatments and new drugs over time.

4. The health care delivery system was on the verge of collapse at the time. Double the number of cases and it would have been a total disaster.

Of course mistakes were made, but treating it as no more dangerous than the flu would have been a far larger mistake.

Basically you are saying I should have died and so what? I don’t appreciate that. I would not take your death so cavalierly.

Your misdirected death rant directed at me was not warranted. This is what happens the emotional feelings superseded science and common sense. I don’t appreciate that.

It's was much more dangerous than flu as a novel virus, to say otherwise was and still is stupid.
Your interpretation of what I mean is incorrect. I agreed, at the time, with those vast majority of the measures. Your time-frame of event and what we did was rational. What I'm saying is we didn't need to go extremes of near isolation of the elderly, effectively lose at least a year of education of young schools kids, stupid “hygiene theater.” and destroy a huge swath of small businesses, place arbitrary, non-science based restrictions on the vast majority of the healthy population to protect the elderly, and maintain our health care delivery system.

The extremes IMO happened because to those in authority, it was easier than making intelligent decisions that might need to be defended later like the CDC (those people are some of the real heroes in this mess) did on what the limits should be.
https://www.cdc.gov/museum/timeline/covid19.html

This IMO helped to cause the backlash against public health and loss of trust in central (most local city sized governments made better decisions during the pandemic) government to handle these sorts of issues we see in many today.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sweden-report-coronavirus-1.6364154
Sweden's no-lockdown COVID strategy was broadly correct, commission suggests

Sweden should have adopted tougher early measures and the government assumed clearer leadership as COVID-19 hit, though the mostly voluntary no-lockdown strategy was broadly correct, a commission reviewing the country's pandemic response said on Friday.

Sweden polarized opinion at home and abroad with its handling of the pandemic, opting against the lockdowns implemented by many countries and adopting a largely voluntary approach of promoting social distancing and good hygiene.

The commission — set up by the government under pressure from parliament — said Sweden's broad policy was "fundamentally correct."

"In the light of current knowledge … the Commission is not convinced that extended or recurring mandatory lockdowns, as introduced in other countries, are a necessary element in the response to a new, serious epidemic outbreak."

Moreover, the report argues the "right balance" was struck in terms of the education sector. Preschool and elementary schools were kept open, with universities and the equivalent of high schools switched to remote learning.

What's done is done, let's just not go down that path again.

 

What's done is done, let's just not go down that path again

Agreed

 

i hope we learned something from it, including how many have acted towards fellow human beings (including this forum)
many would like to just forget the whole thing and apparency nobody has decency to apologize.

 

What has been roaming my mind lately is why almost every single government on earth took similarly exaggerated measures to try and contain the thing.

My impression at this point is that the vast majority of decisions were taken using political logic ... not science

 

What has been roaming my mind lately is why almost every single government on earth took similarly exaggerated measures to try and contain the thing.

My impression at this point is that the vast majority of decisions were taken using political logic ... not science

It was 'safe' (bandwagon effect) to follow the herd and those that didn't or couldn't were vilified with predictions of dire horrors to try and force them to tow the line for a one-size, fits all, over-broad set of measures that needed to cover all possible conditions instead of adapting polices and measures suited to each outbreak circumstance.

I remember all of the dire predictions about Africa being decimated by COVID and the discussion of why it didn't happen.
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/coronavirus.166679/post-1545082
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/coronavirus.166679/post-1503815

One thing that developing countries have in their favor is a young population. Hopefully that should limit the death rate to manageable numbers.

It and other factors did limit the numbers.

https://healthpolicy.fsi.stanford.edu/news/how-has-africa-largely-evaded-covid-19-pandemic-0

How Has Africa Largely Evaded the COVID-19 Pandemic?
SHP master's student Tofunmi Omiye looked at why so few Africans have been hit by the coronavirus compared to the rest of the world. He recently presented this conundrum at Stanford’s 8th Annual Global Health Research Convening.

They found that metrics differences such as age, the prevalence of comorbid disease, Vitamin D status, and sun exposure played a role. For example, the African continent has one of the youngest populations in the world — with a median age of 18 — compared to Europe, with a median age of 42 years.

This correlates to the prevalence of comorbid diseases like obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease across the different continents, which is much lower on the continent compared to other regions. They found this to have been instrumental in Africa mitigating the pandemic from a mortality and hospitalization perspective.

In addition, the continent’s experience with previous infectious diseases and outbreaks made many of the countries respond faster with a united lockdown policy at the pandemic’s onset.

 

What has been roaming my mind lately is why almost every single government on earth took similarly exaggerated measures to try and contain the thing.

My impression at this point is that the vast majority of decisions were taken using political logic ... not science

Most seem to have been too scared of the public reaction to their underfunded health services being overwhelmed.

 

What has been roaming my mind lately is why almost every single government on earth took similarly exaggerated measures to try and contain the thing.

Do you not remember that the reasoning was not that we could stop the spread? That it was to flatten the curve so health care facilities would not be overwhelmed. I believe this saved 1M lives in the US. As I recall China and New Zealand were about the only countries with a zero covid policy.

And to @nsaspook, sorry I over-reacted to your post, I was really aiming at more hard-core deniers who claim no intervention would have been better.

 

Do you not remember that the reasoning was not that we could stop the spread? That it was to flatten the curve so health care facilities would not be overwhelmed. I believe this saved 1M lives in the US. As I recall China and New Zealand were about the only countries with a zero covid policy.

And to @nsaspook, sorry I over-reacted to your post, I was really aiming at more hard-core deniers who claim no intervention would have been better.

Yes, I do remember. Just as I remember that the reason for wearing a mask is to protect others from ourselves and not the other way around. But most people either forgot or never understood the logic.

But NSA also has a point: too many lives were destroyed (both personally and economically) because of the draconian lock downs. And @Ian0 is spot on, I think, on the politicians trying to protect their own interests regarding the unpreparedness of most public health services.

 

unpreparedness of most public health services

Well, after all, it had been a century since the last real pandemic (Spanish Flu) so they kinda forgot how to deal with it. There is lots of blame to go around and plenty of hindsight regrets with the Wuhan Flu.

 

Well, after all, it had been a century since the last real pandemic (Spanish Flu) so they kinda forgot how to deal with it. There is lots of blame to go around and plenty of hindsight regrets with the Wuhan Flu.

If I remember correctly, most governments except the one of Spain, dealt with it by trying to ignore it.

 

We moved from the standard practice of quarantine of the sick to quarantine of the healthy with little or no understanding of the long term consequence because of fear, not science.
The CDC didn't demand these measures, those in authority did.

 

Got my update Covid and flu shot Saturday. I've got the flu shot every year since they started giving them, with no side effects. Not this one, it has me feeling very weak and bad. Don't know what is different in this years shot.

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/12...g-but-theres-still-less-of-it-than-last-year/
The big three respiratory viruses are rising in California, but are causing fewer hospitalizations than last year

California ended its state of emergency for COVID-19 in February, and just this week the California Department of Public Health quietly replaced the state’s COVID dashboard with a new respiratory virus dashboard that tracks hospital admissions, deaths and test positivity rates for COVID and influenza side-by-side, marking COVID’s gradual evolution to an endemic virus, like the flu.
...
“The worry is that hospitalizations will continue to go up with COVID, given the relatively low vaccine uptake for COVID specifically,” Chin-Hong said. “Older than 75, and didn’t get a recent shot, that’s the general [type] of the people who continue to come in.”