so you agree that even doing nothing, gives better result than Covid vaccine?

Doing nothing to reduce the spread of the Covid virus means no restaurants, no shopping, no religious services, no ball games, no bars, no get togethers etc. It means no living. Some countries (India?) had some very severe and long lock downs.
Little kids are going to school with the virus now because they are not vaccinated yet. The kids get the virus from unvaxed parents. Unvaxed people are super-spreaders.

Over 80% of Canadians in my province of Ontario are doubly vaccinated and almost 100% of people going into the intensive care dept. of hospitals are unvaxed.

 

Seems to be a fair evaluation of immunity. I personally think we should accept provable (on your dime) natural immunity as a substitute for vaccination for all vaccine mandates because the science says they are equivalent and if you've already run the high risk gauntlet with COVID-19 there's no reason to pretend it doesn't count as a immunity generating event.

 

FoxNews host Tucker Carlson says this anti-mask stuff in front of the camera...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1386837979453399049

But behind the camera, the owners of Fox, the Murdoch's, enter with masks and the whole Fox News staff is wearing masks as they celebrate 25-years of News offices in Washington, DC.


and they quietly require their staff, including anchors/hosts, to report their vaccination status.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/fox-news-requires-employees-report-151613921.html

 

Nobody should be harassing anybody.

The reason I wear a mask in public places is that there is a US $600 fine here for not doing so.

According to this article, everybody should be wearing surgical masks (my inference from the content). The cloth masks that most people wear don't seem to make the grade.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02457-y

 

According to this article, everybody should be wearing surgical masks (my inference from the content). The cloth masks that most people wear don't seem to make the grade.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02457-y
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02457-y

First...
The study linked surgical masks with an 11% drop in risk, compared with a 5% drop for cloth.

Second...
Neither the laboratory findings nor the mask-trial findings have been peer reviewed.

Scientists make critical mistakes in experimental design and data interpretation all the time. Not every article submitted for publication is published. Most interesting, articles that are submitted for publication in association with leaks of the research to the press, usually don't get published. It is just a researcher or their organization or investor trying to pump up their ego before their months/years of work are flushed down the toilet.

I'll wait for the full paper before changing my behavior.

 

It occurred to me recently that coronavirus has damaged the brains of a large percentage of the population, without even needing to be infected, and getting s serious infection seems to repair the damage in at least some of them.

Bob

 

It occurred to me recently that coronavirus has damaged the brains of a large percentage of the population, without even needing to be infected, and getting s serious infection seems to repair the damage in at least some of them.

Bob

I think we've also seen how susceptible the average person is to a cult-recruiting scheme.

 

I think we've also seen how susceptible the average person is to a cult-recruiting scheme.

Yawn, I need to get potatoes to make breafast, I’m sure there is a conspiracy behind it somewhere.

kv

 

Remember the statements from most media outlets.

The views in this commentary don't represent the views of the...

Not that I would ever stick up for Fox...just saying...

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavi...salem-israel-25ec5e9141c72080876bfe4f481bf50f

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel restricted its COVID Green Pass on Sunday to allow only those who have received a vaccine booster dose or recently recuperated from coronavirus to enter indoor venues. The new criteria mean that nearly 2 million people will lose their vaccination passport in the coming days.

Israel is the first country to make a booster shot a requirement for its digital vaccination passport. The move is widely seen as a step to encourage booster vaccination among those who have yet to receive a third dose.

Under the new guidelines, people must have received a booster shot to be eligible for a green pass. Those who have received two vaccine doses, and those who have recovered from coronavirus, will be issued passes valid for six months after the date of their vaccination or recovery.

 

Israel was the first or one of the first countries to vaccinate its people so the people are due for a booster.
I got my 1st and 2nd shots when my age was announced so I am due to get my booster shot in December.

My area will have vaccination passports in about 3 weeks. Then the only place for antivaxers to be at is in the Intensive Care dept of hospitals.

 

The reason I wear a mask in public places is that there is a US $600 fine here for not doing so.

Wow. Serious fine there. I just wear it so people won't get in my face for not wearing it. So now what? I will have people in my face for wearing it? Seems to be a no win. If someone gets in my face I should have a right to just eliminate them from my face. As to mask type? We just buy them in bulk (surgical type) from Amazon, mask in the house, mask in the trucks and mask everywhere. Hell I should be in the mask making business and no shortage of mask commercials on TV. Everyone is hawking the things. A former Woman Marine I know made custom mask for me and the wife with little eagle globe and anchor on them.

Ron

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/2...he-first-full-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

Anyone found any data from any of the trials?

p.s no need to point out that this is an opinion piece

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/2...he-first-full-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

Anyone found any data from any of the trials?

p.s no need to point out that this is an opinion piece

Any of what trials? I didn't bother reading the opinion piece because opinions are like you-know-whats, everyone has one and they all stink. So what trials do you think we are all thinking about? Time trials for the next race, an OJ trial, ...

 

When "officials" politicize the manipulated "facts" to a populace bereft of critical thinking / common sense, it's Deep DoDo.
Nose rings lead the morons, while I wonder how this policy will Really progress going forward.
These aren't "Interesting times" they're "Dangerous".

 

When "officials" politicize the manipulated "facts" to a populace bereft of critical thinking / common sense, it's Deep DoDo.
Nose rings lead the morons, while I wonder how this policy will Really progress going forward.
These aren't "Interesting times" they're "Dangerous".

Yes, very dangerous times if you're not vaccinated.

 

Yawn, I need to get potatoes to make breafast, I’m sure there is a conspiracy behind it somewhere.

kv

Think what you want but I have every anti-masker/anti-vaxxer at work drinking grape Favor Aid on demand.

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/2...he-first-full-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

Anyone found any data from any of the trials?

p.s no need to point out that this is an opinion piece

That opinion piece is a shallow IMO evaluation of vaccine induced immunity. The only thing the initial studies could use was antibody level neutralization immunity but our immune system has a much more complex and robust response that should last longer than the initial antibody generation. B and T cells work together to create new antibodies in response to additional exposures. As time passes we will lose the antibody level neutralization immunity but our bodies retain the ability to regenerate those antibodies. It just takes a while so we might get some symptoms but rarely full blown disease.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/n...obust-tcell-response-to-mrna-covid19-vaccines

PHILADELPHIA—Messenger-RNA (mRNA) vaccines against the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 provoke a swift and strong response by the immune system’s T cells—the heavy armor of the immune system—according to a study from researchers in the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. Although recent studies of vaccines tend to focus on the antibody response, the T-cell response is also an important and potentially more durable source of protection—yet little has been reported so far on the T-cell response to COVID-19 vaccines.
...
In the new study, which appears in the journal Immunity, the Penn Medicine researchers analyzed the T-cell responses in 47 healthy people who received two doses of the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech mRNA vaccines.

The results reveal the complex details of how the T-cell response to these vaccines unfolds, and underline the importance of a second dose for people with no history of COVID-19. The findings showed, however, that in people with a history of COVID-19, the T-cell response was already robust after the first vaccine dose, with no significant increase after the second dose, which may have implications for potential future booster shots.

“Our findings underscore the fact that we need to look at T cells, not just antibodies, if we want a complete picture of the vaccine response for those who have not had COVID-19 and for those who have recovered from the disease,” said senior author E. John Wherry, PhD, chair of the department of Systems Pharmacology and Translational Therapeutics and director of the Penn Institute of Immunology in the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.

How Do T-Cells Help Prevent the Spread of COVID-19?
Antibodies are forked proteins secreted by immune cells called B cells; they can bind tightly to specific viral structures on virus-infected cells. T cells also have antibody-like receptors that enable tight binding to specific viral structures, but they are whole cells, some of which—called “killer” T-cells—are capable of directly killing virus-infected cells they encounter. T cells therefore have long been regarded as the heavy armor of the immune system. Their responses to vaccines are harder to study than antibody responses, though, so less is known about those responses, including in the case of COVID-19.

The results also showed that the T-cell response in the weeks after mRNA vaccination includes T-cell types normally elicited by natural infection—and in general, natural viral infection is known to be capable of inducing T-cell protection that lasts years and even decades.

“We need to do follow-up studies to confirm the longevity of the T-cell response to vaccination, but our results here support the idea that that response can be long-lasting,” Wherry said.

 

Neither the laboratory findings nor the mask-trial findings have been peer reviewed.

What about this one?
"Face mask use by the primary case and family contacts before the primary case developed symptoms was 79% effective in reducing transmission (OR=0.21, 95% CI 0.06 to 0.79)"

It should probably be added that it would be unethical to tell a bunch of people that they can't wear face masks and send them into infectious areas, that is why you don't see too many studies in this area...

Also, we know that surgical masks are an effective way to protect an others because surgeons have been wearing them for a *long* time to protect their patients from getting an infection.

For more, have a look here

Hope this helps

 

What about this one?
"Face mask use by the primary case and family contacts before the primary case developed symptoms was 79% effective in reducing transmission (OR=0.21, 95% CI 0.06 to 0.79)"

It should probably be added that it would be unethical to tell a bunch of people that they can't wear face masks and send them into infectious areas, that is why you don't see too many studies in this area...

Also, we know that surgical masks are an effective way to protect an others because surgeons have been wearing them for a *long* time to protect their patients from getting an infection.

For more, have a look here

Hope this helps

It's just not possible for typical mask usage to reduce transmission at those levels now. If you're not wearing a well fitted N-95 mask today you are likely fooling yourself on the level of virus protection you have. Masks today do serve an important function today by providing marginal protection to the general wearing public but there is maybe a more important factor in mask usage and mandates in behavior modification.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/

The surgical mask communicates risk. For most, risk is perceived as the potential loss of something of value, but there is another side to risk, memorably formulated by Beck in his Risk Society.2 Beck states that risk society is “a systematic way of dealing with hazards and insecurities induced and introduced by modernisation itself.”2 For Beck, risk occurs not only in the form of threat and possible loss, but also in society’s organized management and response to these risks, which create a forwarding of present risk into the future. Furthermore, Beck writes of the “symptoms and symbols of risks” that combine in populations to create a “cosmetics of risk.” He suggests that people living in the present moment conceive of risk in terms of the physical tools used to mitigate risk while still “maintaining the source of the filth.” Beck critiques the cosmetics of risk as measures that are not preventive but rather act as a “symbolic industry and policy of eliminating the increase in risks.” I propose that the surgical mask is a symbol that protects from the perception of risk by offering nonprotection to the public while causing behaviours that project risk into the future.