Hi all,

looking for some advice / best practice regarding how I can approach controlling my 3 x external sockets, with the winter approaching. I have outdoor lighting plugged in all year round.


- Install individual internal isolator switches to control outdoor sockets.
- Replace faceplates with IP44 WiFi enabled outdoor sockets (I understand mixed reviews here)

I’ve also stumbled on the SHELLY brand, could these be installed behind existing outdoor sockets to control use remotely ?

 

First and foremost, it depends on your local electrical code. Here in the US, the National Electrical Code requires outside receptacles to be protected by a ground fault interrupter breaker. Which in most cases means multiple external sockets (3 in your case) on a GFI breaker in the electrical distribution panel. Anything more than that here in the US typically means a UL certified device. When my house was built over 40 years ago all of the outside receptacles (3), enclosed garage receptacles (4), bathrooms and kitchen receptacles (3) were put on a single 20A GFI breaker circuit. Which means if there is a GFI trip on an outside receptacle (very infrequently but does happen several times a year) then all the receptacles in the bathrooms and near the kitchen sink are dead until reset. Which is a pain in backside. I'd much prefer resettable GFI outlets there instead of the electrical panel GFI breaker. You'd have to check the NEC code book to see if GFI receptacles are allowed for outside usage.

 

Welcome to AAC.

Shelly products are excellent. Not the cheapest but definitely among the best, if not the best. The Shelly Pro line is DIN mountable and you could put them on the supply side, that is, inside the building where the panel is. The smaller Shelly relays can fit easily into the electrical box at the point of use and if it is a high quality weatherproof box, they will work fine.

I would lean to created a DIN rail based solution at the panel to simplify communications and eliminate weatherproofing/environmental concerns. I use Shelly products extensively and have never had a problem with their products.

The Shelly app is good, but one of the great things about Shelly is they don't hold back on integration options and they can easily be used with Alexa, Google Home, and now Matter—which makes them compatible with Apple HomeKit. I use and recommend Home Assistant, even as an interface to other systems. For example I use Apple Home and Home Assistant appears as a gateway to the Shelly devices in Apple Home's configuration. This gives me a lot of flexibility in automation and various programmatic functions.

 

Welcome to AAC.

Shelly products are excellent. Not the cheapest but definitely among the best, if not the best. The Shelly Pro line is DIN mountable and you could put them on the supply side, that is, inside the building where the panel is. The smaller Shelly relays can fit easily into the electrical box at the point of use and if it is a high quality weatherproof box, they will work fine.

I would lean to created a DIN rail based solution at the panel to simplify communications and eliminate weatherproofing/environmental concerns. I use Shelly products extensively and have never had a problem with their products.

The Shelly app is good, but one of the great things about Shelly is they don't hold back on integration options and they can easily be used with Alexa, Google Home, and now Matter—which makes them compatible with Apple HomeKit. I use and recommend Home Assistant, even as an interface to other systems. For example I use Apple Home and Home Assistant appears as a gateway to the Shelly devices in Apple Home's configuration. This gives me a lot of flexibility in automation and various programmatic functions.

thanks for this - I have good weather resistance boxes for my 3 outdoor outlets, I had a gander at this earlier, would this work ?

https://amzn.eu/d/4hSHZrD

 

thanks for this - I have good weather resistance boxes for my 3 outdoor outlets, I had a gander at this earlier, would this work ?

https://amzn.eu/d/4hSHZrD

Yes, this device is a good one. The only potential issue will be your Wi-Fi coverage.

 

I use Sonoff Smart plugs. Shelly and others make something similar. There is no rewiring. I use large waterproof lids over the outlets. These fit inside the cover.
At first, I added a smaller smart switch inside the electrical box, but the code inspector was not happy. They do meet code.
I use WiFi switches but there are other formats like Zigbe, but that adds layers of complexity.
Most all can be programmed to turn on/off with time. date, sunup/down and work without a computer/phone. And/Or they can talk to software on the phone. The sunup timing requires them to have an internet connection.

 

This is relative to the outside outlets, not directly about controlling them: A word of caution about sharing a single GFCI device among multiple loads, is DON'T DO IT!! The grief resulting from one GFCI trip removing power from other locations can be rather expensive. For one client, a kitchen counter GFCI outlet near the sink tripped for an unknown reason, and that also removed power from the refrigerator, which she realized a day later, after all of the freezer contents had thawed. In the house owned by another client, a GFCI outside tripped and all of the security lighting and stairs illumination became inoperative. That GFCI trip was due to the use by the hired lawn gardener, who never mentioned it. A month later I was called to address the lighting problem, and it took a while to trace it to the installer using the protected extension contacts from the GFCI to power the rest of the system, including all of the rear wall outlets and lighting.
My point being that it is totally false economy to share GFCI protection. Use a separate device for each outlet.
AND, if an outside outlet is used to power heating cables that protect pipes from freezing, DO NOT provide a GFCI for that circuit.

 

A word of caution about sharing a single GFCI device among multiple loads,

Years ago, garage freezers could be on a non GFCI circuit while the rest of the outlets must be GFI.
In a kitchen the fridge outlet should be separate from the counter outlets. (the code I live with)
The last several projects I worked on, 100% of the house/building had to be Ground and Arc Fault protected, using GF breakers. Last month I found a new oven that will not work with GFCI because the "computer" returns current back through ground, like some dryers return the light bulb and clock current back through ground.

The new GFCI breakers forced me to open up every outside outlet I have and look inside. (1970 house) The outlets did not need a watertight cover back them. All the outlets had collected dust/dirt which gets wet and trips the breaker. I had to clean or replace all outlets and add good large covers.

In the barn I found a mouse next in one of the overhead light boxes. The box was full of straw and bird feathers. I measured the ground leakage current, and it was right on the edge of tripping the breaker. On wet days it trips. I hate GFI but it forced me to find and fix a number of problems.

 

My most recent run in with a GFCI was doing an installation of basement lighting for a new client. I carefully DISconnected a power feed from old wiring upstairs, and because I opened one circuit at a time, it tripped a hidden GFCI hidden in the wall of an office upstairs, turning off lighting and a computer system, and all the upstairs bathroom lighting. An hour later the homeowner mentioned this to me, and asked if I could switch her power back on. I had done a lot of installation and had no clue, at the time, of what I had done to stop the power. So first I checked all of the breakers, none were tripped. Then upstairs, no GFCIs in the bathroom, but all the lights and outlets were off. Then to the office, with light and computer off. So then I inspected the hidden outlet under the computer desk. It was a GFCI device, but hidden behind big cords. After unplugging the cords it was revealed to be a GFCI that looked tripped. Resetting it solved the whole problem. I explained what it was to the homeowner and was very careful to avoid that wire from above.
BOTTOM LINE: A GFCI protecting more than one location is not your friend!!!!!

 

2023 NEC.

GFCI protection for dwellings
GFCI protection must be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (F). GFCI protective devices must be in a readily accessible location.

You can provide the GFCI protection using either a GFCI circuit breaker or a GFCI receptacle. To apply 210.8(A)(8) or (10), 210.8(B)(7), (13), and (15), the distance you measure from the sink or bathtub/shower is the shortest path the power-supply cord connected to the receptacle will follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed barrier.

With the 2023 revision, the reference to windows and doors was removed to ensure GFCI protection for receptacles within the measured distance as required in 210.8 even if the measurement line passes through a window or door.

A GFCI circuit breaker provides ground-fault protection starting at the breaker, so the entire circuit has ground-fault protection. A GFCI receptacle provides ground-fault protection for whatever is plugged into it; it has load-side terminals that provide downstream protection for any other receptacle(s) or device(s) on the circuit.

Receptacles installed in the following dwelling unit locations must be GFCI protected (and the GFCI device must be in a readily accessible location) [210.8]. Figure 01
(1) Bathrooms.
(2) Garages and accessory buildings.
(3) Outdoors.
(4) Crawl spaces (at or below grade).
(5) Basements.
(6) Kitchens.
Traditionally this requirement applied only to kitchen countertop receptacles, but now any cord-and-plug-connected appliance in the kitchen such as the range receptacle, refrigerator receptacle, disposal receptacle, and microwave receptacle now require GFCI protection.
(7) Food or beverage preparation or cooking areas.
(8) Sinks (receptacles within 6 ft of the top inside edge of the bowl of a dwelling unit sink).
(9) Boathouses.
The Code does not require installing a receptacle in a boathouse, but any that are in a boathouse must be GFCI protected.
(10) Bathtubs or shower stalls (receptacles within 6 ft of the outside edge of a bathtub or shower stall not installed within a bathroom).
(11) Laundry areas.
(12) Damp and Wet Locations Indoors.


AFCIs
An AFCI is intended to de-energize the circuit when it detects the current waveform characteristics unique to an arcing fault [100].

AFCI protection is required per 210.12(B) through (C) and the AFCI device must be in a readily accessible location. AFCI protection is not required for outlets in bathroom areas, garages, or outside. But it is required for 15A or 20A, 120V branch circuits in the following dwelling unit locations [210.12(B)]:
(1) Kitchens
(2) Family rooms
(3) Dining rooms
(4) Living rooms
(5) Parlors
(6) Libraries
(7) Dens
(8) Bedrooms
(9) Sunrooms
(10) Recreation rooms
(11) Closets
(12) Hallways
(13) Laundry areas
(14) Similar areas

AFCI protection is required for 15A or 20A, 120V branch circuits in the following dormitory unit locations [210.12(C)]:
(1) Bedrooms
(2) Living rooms
(3) Hallways
(4) Closets
(5) Bathrooms
(6) Similar rooms

AFCI protection is required for 15A and 20A, 120V branch circuits in the following other occupancy locations 210.12(D)]:
(1) Guest rooms and guest suites of hotels and motels.
(2) Nursing homes and limited care facilities, areas used exclusively as patient sleeping rooms.
(3) Areas designed for use exclusively as sleeping quarters in fire stations, police stations, ambulance stations, rescue stations, ranger stations, and similar locations.

If 15A or 20A, 120V branch-circuit wiring is extended, modified, or replaced in any of the areas specified in 210.12(B), (C), or (D), the wiring must be AFCI protected by one of the following [210.12(E)]:
(1) AFCI circuit breaker.
(2) AFCI receptacle installed at the first receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit.
------------------------------------------------
The new construction I have looked at from 2023 has fault protection in all locations.

 

I use Sonoff Smart plugs. Shelly and others make something similar. There is no rewiring. I use large waterproof lids over the outlets. These fin inside the cover.
At first, I added a smaller smart switch inside the electrical box, but the code inspector was not happy. They do meet code.
I use WiFi switches but there are other formats like Zigbe, but that adds layers of complexity.
Most all can be programmed to turn on/off with time. date, sunup/down and work without a computer/phone. And/Or they can talk to software on the phone. The sunup timing requires them to have an internet connection.
View attachment 357047

Sonoff is a good, cheap product. I have used many Sonoff devices and the can be refreshed with alternative firmware like Tasmota or ESPHome. The Shelly products are at a different level in terms of functionality and support—but you do pay for that.

 

My take from that rather disturbing experience is that a GFCI device should ONLY PROTECT A VERY LIMITED AREA! The concept of economy by putting a bunch of outlets all o one device is bound to cause mysterious power failures later on.
In addition, having a heater tape to keep pipes from freezing plugged into a GFCI outlet is setting up for a disaster. Likewise, putting the freezer in the basement on a GFCI is inviting the spoiling of all of those steaks and expensive foods.

 

looking for some advice / best practice regarding how I can approach controlling my 3 x external sockets, with the winter approaching. I have outdoor lighting plugged in all year round.

I replaced several outdoor AC outlets with X-10 outlet modules (both lamp and appliance types) back in the early 90's. Still work.

To see how they do it in bizzaro-land, check in with nsaspook. He probably has a PDP-8 working with ground penetrating radar and a sundial to do god know what.

ak