Circuit with binary counters and a quartz oscillator to make a light illuminate at 1Hz not working

Thread Starter

4096

Joined Nov 6, 2020
7
I'm trying to figure out how to use quartz oscillators and I created a circuit on a breadboard to get a light to light up once per second but it does not work. I am using a 16 MHz quartz oscillator and two CD4060BE binary counters. The breadboard I am using has columns on both sides for both the power and ground. There are a total of 30 rows split in two so for each row there are five connected slots on the left and another five connected slots on the right. There are four connections from the power supply. Two go into PIN #16 of the two binary counters (right rows #8 and #18). I am connecting a 9 volt battery to power.

I also have a 300 Farad capacitor that connects from the power supply to a quartz oscillator. One pin of the capacitor is in the power supply column and the other pin is in right row #1. A quartz oscillator has its two pins in right row #1 and right row #4. A wire goes from right row #4 to right row #13, which is pin #11 (input) of the first CD4060BE counter. There is a wire on left row #9 (pin #2 of the counter, Q13) going to right row #23, where pin #11 of the second CD4060BE counter is connected. On left row #18, pin #1 (Q12) of the second counter is connected, along with a wire that goes to left row #2. An LED light is connected to left rows #1 and #2. A 6.8 MOhm resistor is connected to left rows #1 and #3, and left row #3 is connected to ground. Pin #8 of both CD4060BE binary counters are connected to ground (left rows #15 and #25).

The last connection from the power supply connects to right row #30, where there is a button connected to rows #28 and #30 (both left and right). Right row #28 has two wires: one connecting to right row #22 (pin #12, reset, of the second counter) and another connecting to right row #12 (pin #12 of the first counter). Right rows #12 and #22 each have a 6.8 MOhm resistor connected to them, which are also connected to rows #16 and #17, respectively. Rows #16 and #17 are connected to ground.

The light never lights up, whether I push the button or not. I built this several months ago based on a diagram I found online, that I cannot find today. What am I doing wrong?
 

dl324

Joined Mar 30, 2015
12,684
Schematics are the preferred way to describe circuits. If you question your wiring ability, pictures are preferable over verbal descriptions.

Don't post a picture of your breadboard before posting a schematic.
 

Thread Starter

4096

Joined Nov 6, 2020
7
I'm not sure if I drew the schematic correctly so I included a diagram of the breadboard. If there is a difference between the two images, the diagram of the breadboard is correct. This is a different design than the one I described. Since someone said a 16 MHz oscillator might be too fast for the CD4060BE, I drew the schematic for one that uses a 32 kHz oscillator.

image.9FD1T0.png1604721299125.png
 

schmitt trigger

Joined Jul 12, 2010
418
The 100 farad capacitors, if they are indeed 100 farad, are at least 5,000,000,000,000 times too large to resonate a crystal. Usually the crystals require a load capacitor of 20 picofarads.
That and several other mistakes.
 

Thread Starter

4096

Joined Nov 6, 2020
7
I made a mistake when I labeled the capacitors as 100 Farads. They are 100 picoFarads. I built this circuit several months ago and got the idea from a schematic I found online. When I searched today I couldn't find the site.
 

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
12,270
I created a circuit on a breadboard to get a light to light up once per second
hi 4096,
Why are you choosing to use a 16MHz xtal for one second timing periods.?
I would suggest a 32.768kHz xtal would be more suitable, with one 4060 and a say a 4013, a one second timing interval could be produced.

E
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
7,180
Load capacitors around 100 pf may be to much for a 16 MHz crystal and in my limited experience 32768 Hz crystals need much lower load capacitors. I just received some that have recommended load capacitors of 6pf. I have had a 32768 Hz crystal oscillator refuse to start with load capacitors around 30 pf.
 

andrewmm

Joined Feb 25, 2011
1,147
Using bread board such as that , its very hard to make a crystal oscilator oscilate. I'd suggets using a clock chip, which kust needs power in and signal out.
 

AnalogKid

Joined Aug 1, 2013
9,066
Before we get to any real answers, let's clear up a few things.

Add a decoupling capacitor across the CD4060 from pin 8 to pin 16. 0.1 uF to 1.0 uF, ceramic.
Decrease the resistor in series with the LED from 200 K to 1 K.

To be clear, what is the frequency of the crystal or crystal oscillator - 16 MHz, 32 kHz, something else - ?

Also, what is the purpose of the five resistors in series across the oscillator?

ak
 

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
1,161
Also, what is the purpose of the five resistors in series across the oscillator?
Because he does not have the right parts. 6.8meg+6.8meg+200k= 10meg to 14meg
and 200k+200k = ?
The oscillator should be very small in area. It is probably more important to keep the leads short than to get the exact value.
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
7,180
It may be necessary to try different values for the resistors that set the drive level for the crystal and the load capacitance. If you have the datasheet for the crystal you are way ahead of the game because you can look these things up.
 

Thread Starter

4096

Joined Nov 6, 2020
7
:rolleyes::rolleyes: How does that Oscillator work? Where did you get this idea from?

This is how you wire up a 4060 to use its oscillator.
I've already made a breadboard using the oscillator in the CD4060BE chip. I'm interested in building clocks (both analog and digital) and I've heard that quartz oscillators are more accurate than the CD4060BE chip.
 

Thread Starter

4096

Joined Nov 6, 2020
7
Using bread board such as that , its very hard to make a crystal oscilator oscilate. I'd suggets using a clock chip, which kust needs power in and signal out.
I'm not sure what the term clock chip refers to. Does it mean a real time clock, or something like the TLC555, or something else?
 

AnalogKid

Joined Aug 1, 2013
9,066
I've heard that quartz oscillators are more accurate than the CD4060BE chip.
The 4060 has amplifier elements on pins 9, 10, and 11, that can be used to make an R-C oscillator or a crystal oscillator. Both types of circuits are shown in the datasheet. Or, it can be driven by an external signal coming from a discrete oscillator circuit (555, crystal, etc.), a complete oscillator component (often in a DIP package with 4 pins), or an output signal from something like a GPS receiver.

ak
 

andrewmm

Joined Feb 25, 2011
1,147
A few things
yes a crystal is more stable than a R C circuit,

My point was that crystal oscillators can be made using a stand alone crystal, and capacitors,
or by a stand alone crystal oscillator in a package

such as this

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/abracon-llc/ASDK2-32-768KHZ-LR-T3/535-13597-1-ND/6167595

The thing about crystal oscillators made out of stand alone crystals, and capacitors,
is they are very fragile, in terms of , they can stop oscillating or not oscillate in the first place very easily

If you think about the capacitance of a wire / contact on the bread board,
they are comparable to the capacitance you are adding to make the thing oscillate.
you will find especially things like the 32.768 KHz ones are well "iffy"

hence my suggestion, of using a 32.768 oscillator as above, that is "guaranteed" to oscillate ,
 
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