Car alarm and door popper

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
Hi All, I need a circuit for diagram for the follow, you would be appreciated:

Shaved door handles: I have a car door actuator that is operated by a momentum button that pulls the door latch to open the door, door poppers push the door open.
I have an alarm that was that was using an actuator that stopped the door latch from unlock. But it isn't any more. What I wont the alarm to do is cut the circuit before the door latch actuator operates when the alarm is armed and when the alarm is off the actuator works. I was thinking a latching relay - but I don't know? How to design the circuit. Please help
 

IMP002017

Joined Jan 28, 2017
189
I am not sure I understand what your looking to do?

Are you talking about having a 12v connection that will with a Push of a button pop your door? What your looking to do is set it up so when you have your Alarm armed that 12v is no longer there and would do nothing if someone pushed the button?

Most cars that I have hooked up with Shaved doors have no button that someone coming by would be able to push. I have used Key Switches as a backup if the Key Fob was to die. Then as a Back up there was a area where there is a hidden back up that is under Key tied into the body. Once open with Key there is a backup Cable to open door if car battery dies.

If your looking to have it so your Switch don't work with the Alarm is armed. Then you would use the Ground when Armed output on your Alarm. Most Alarms have this setup so you can add Anti-Grind on Remote Start system or Starter Kill on Alarm systems. This would Require a Relay to be used between that output and anything you connect to it.

James
 

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
Thank you so much for your response: I am not using a remote for the poppers. I have two buttons 1 inside 1 out they open the doors (no handles) they use a nactuator to pull the door latch to open the door. Separately, I have an alarm installed, when I had door handles it stopped them from work using another actuator to stop the handles from working. What I want to do is take wires that were work the alarm actuator and wire it up so that when the alarm is alarmed it cuts the power to the door popper actuator. Outcome would be the doors buttons don't work when the alarm is on as it interrupts their circuit and when the alarm is off the door button circuit operates. I am not sure how to get the alarm when activated to interrupt the door button/ popper circuit? I was thinking a latching relay but don't know how to wire it. You help is really appreciated
 

IMP002017

Joined Jan 28, 2017
189
A 5 Pin Relay is best but you could make a 4 pin work, However I am going to write this up for use with a 5 Pin relay. You really don' t need a large one however in most cases the 30/40 seem to be the least expense. Out of all the ones I have taken apart. From a Cheap .99c 30/40 from China to Bosch they all seem to be built really well.

I like and use the Install Bay brand of Relays as of the last few years. I haven't had any issues with any of them not working.

I would need to know the Alarm make to know for sure what wire would be the Ground out what Armed. Like the last Alarm I installed was a Viper 5605v for a friend that I took from his other car and installed in his new one. His Ground when Armed was on *As it has been in many alarms and RS systems* the Orange wire. In his case it was a -500mA ground when armed.

Once you locate your Ground when armed output. You would connect it to your Relay Pin 85, Pin 86 would be Constant 12V+. Then you need to take one of the wires to your Door POP cut that and put on end of that to Pin 30 and the other end to 87a. That will make it so when you arm your alarm the Door Pop wouldn't work. When you disarm your alarm If you tap into the 12v+ of your Door Pop, I would connect your HOT side to Pin 87a and Actuator side to 30. This keeps things from the un-used pin 87 from shorting out while armed. However you could use that as another feature port in your alarm setup but I am not going to get into all that...

Pin Out
85 Ground when Armed
86 12V+ Constant (If you have a RAP don't connect to that 12v line)
87a 12V+ Used for Actuator *Could also use the Ground side to the Actuator*
30 The other end of the wire you cut Actuator Side.

James
 

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
James, that is awesome thank you, so I have been playing with the alarm actuator, it pushes and pulls the wires going to it seem to do opposite movements
I am a picture person so add a couple of photos for you. So are you saying I don't use the wires for the alarm actuator, that I need to find the alarms earth and use that as you explain, an chance you could draw a diagram rgds Craig
 

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IMP002017

Joined Jan 28, 2017
189
I am not 100% sure because it don't say really what it is. So I am going to assume that this is right setup.

On Connector 1 there is a Yellow wire that goes to the Immobilizer Relay. I would say that may be the right one for doing this. However I am slightly confused because looking at the Diagram it would look like it is getting power from the ACC line of the Ign Switch. Then the system is used to make a Connection for the starter when the key is turned. So that must not be a Ground when Armed.

Only thing is there don't seem to be anything in your wiring for the System that is an output when armed.

So in the Past and wasn't something that could be done on all Alarm systems however there was some that would offer a good ON when armed and off when disarmed and that was the LED. (Not every system will offer this. Some are Ground always)
Then another spot that could work is where your cars Impact Sensor is connected. Again some cases Not all cases there is a ground when armed on that line. It can be hard to locate at times if there is impact while testing the wiring because you may find a ground on that line and think it is the wire. No it would be the Ground wire. If you test it with the system off and it don' t have any Ground, Then you test it when the system is Armed and now there is Ground. That is what your looking for.

For the first wire I was talking about in this *Yellow* if it was setup to having the starter wires being connected between 87a and 30 then I would guess this would be a Ground when Armed. However because they are using the 87 and 30 that would have to be ground when dis armed output on that yellow...

I would test that wire anyway and make sure there wasn't a error in the write up for how to wire the system. When you test that wire when Disarmed, If it is showing a ground. Then Arm the system and test if it shows the ground is no longer there. This isn;t going to help.

In most cases it would or should say Ground When Armed output. Your system only shows there is a -250mA ground however don't state if armed or disarmed. Only one that don' t confuse me on these outputs is the one for the Red for Window closer, It clearly says 30 seonds. SO that wouldn't work for your needs either...

So if you test that Connector 1 Yellow, Don't confuse it with the Larger yellow wire that is used for the Ignition. The one you would want to test would be smaller wire and would be connected with the long connector set of wires. Test it first without system being armed. If tested ground, test it again when alarm is armed and it should show no ground if it is setup as it looks like the Manual says it is.

Then test your Black wire on your LED as well. If it shows ground when the system is not armed that won't work, Look at the next spot and that would be the Shock Sensor. Test the Black wire, if it shows ground when disarmed that isn't going to work. Your looking for something that will be Ground when Armed only.

Word of Caution as well. Every time I have ever hooked up a Shaved handle system, I have always had some type of backup cable system that could be locked away in an access incase the battery ever dies. If you set this up as an ability to turn it on and off ever Electronics I would at the least have it setup on a Switch that could be turned over to a Backup battery that is only for working the door Pop. If there is no Cable back up.

James
 

IMP002017

Joined Jan 28, 2017
189
Hello Craig, I am sorry I did miss your pictures before. So looking over your Pictures for the Alarm and Door Lock Actuator I guess I was before under the Impression that your system was setup already to open your door that you press a button on the outside and it would pop the door open.

So what I can tell you is if your picture is showing what you want to use to open a Car door I hate to say that in the case of most cars that I have worked on that just won't work. What that is used for is to lock and unlock your cars door. It is on a Reverse Polarity setup. So you put ground on say the blue wire and 12v+ on the Green wire it would lock, Then you take the ground put it on the green and 12v+ on the Blue and it would unlock. This is done with 2 Relays.

THe info I was talking about is used on a DOOR POP motor that would have a Ground and a Positive wire going to it. It only works when power is supplied to the motor and it only Pulls the Door open either the rod or latch its self. It would be set up with a good size wire be Fuse protected and would take a good amount of power to pull the door latch to open door.

In some cases there is no need for the End user to have Door locks installed on a car with Shaved handles because there is no way for others to get into the car without controls. However I have in over 90% of the cases installed Door locks with Door POP as a way to add extra protection.

I guess I need more info about what your trying to do before I can or before I should give more info about how to do something. Again I was under the impression that your Doors was shaved, had door Pop motors installed already and was just HOT the whole time with a button maybe under front or rear fender that one could push and pop open the door. I thought you were looking for a way to make it so it couldn't be done as long as the Alarm/Remote Start system was Armed.

James
 
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Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
Hi James you impression is correct, the button on the out and inside working an operational. Prior the door handles with the alarm actuators where working too, of course when I shut the and locked the car with the alarm, if I pushed the buttons they would over ride the lock. I have now taken the door hands off and but new bear claw latches in from the slam doors ones, it is a 50's pick up. So I have the doors work fine. But I still have the alarm wires and actuator in the door, I haven't take. Them out yet, I was hoping to use them to interrupt the circuit of the other actuator that the door popper uses to open the door latch.
I now know the alarm actuators are reverse polarity. Which I can take out if I can't uses those. I can then as you said find the earth wire to interrupt the circuit
Because I have an outside door button which I want to use all the time, I definitely need the alarm to interrupt the circuit and alarm the car
Your help is really appreciated and I think we can work it out

Craig
 

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
Hi James a video for, this shows the out side button, that operates the actuator you see, I do have relay which you but only because I was try to get it working, the other wires and actuator is the alarm reverse polarity actuator. I was trying to use those wires on the relay but it didn't work
 

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
I tried uploading a video but it won't let me. I do have the door poppers installed and working, one on the under side of the dash and one at the back of the cab, on both sides and they work well. I changed the old slam door latches to new Altman bear claw latches. The wires for the door poppers are a positive and earth.
So I think you are saying take an earth from the alarm to both doors and uses something like the car body shock feed which should be containt when the alarm is live (Alarmed)
Use a normal relay (normally closed)
85 ground - the earth from the alarm (could be yellow - I need to test)
86 constant 12v - the car body shock feed
87a 12v the wire I have going to the popper actuator cut that, I can use either the positive or the earth
30 the wire that I have cut that goes 87a then goes to the door popper actuator from 30

I did have a little black box that came from the alarm that I had stuck to the body I think that was the shock devise, but it kept on falling off, it had two wires going to it which would I use?

The old wires and actuators I have for the old lock system, Which are reverse polarity need to be stripped out I can't use them for this

Regards Craig
 

IMP002017

Joined Jan 28, 2017
189
Hello Craig,

I am not sure that the Yellow wire is going to work if you haven't tested it. Again looking over the Diagram in the manual it looks like that would be ground when disarmed because of the way it is wired. In most US alarms even though wire color isn't the right color it would be normally Ground when Armed to help with things that need when the alarm is armed. Once you disarm the alarm it would also move from being a ground output.

So then I was saying that if it is tested and is right in the diagram Not ground output while armed. Then there are other places you may be able to find the ground when armed output. So that was what I was next talking about trying the Shock Sensor Ground output. In some cases that would only turn on 12v+ on the red wire to the shock and Ground added only when armed. So again if the Yellow isn't able to work for Ground when armed you could then look at the Shock sensor or Alarms LED for a GROUND when armed.

NOW please note there are some systems that are stupid and the people that made them left both Hot and Ground to the Shock sensor running all the time and only turned off the Trip input at the alarm. Here is why I mention that. If you test all your wires and your system only offers FULL time ground to all items on the alarm. If your Shock Sensor has a Power wire that does turn on and off when armed and disarmed you could always take and make a ground when armed output. Would want to Diode Isolate this so it don't false.

About your Door Locks, There should be Something there already inplace I thought you said? Or you trying to add the LOCKs as doing something else?

12v System, Take a 12v Reversing polarity door lock and give one wire 12v and the other ground it will move plunger. Then take wires and move them the other way and plunger moves the other way. Because of the complex setup of how different systems work in most cases you need to use 2 Relays. Both Relays are resting on Ground at pin 87a. When you use the Remote to Arm the alarm power form your Alarm is sent to the relay that will lock the doors, This will then move that Relay for LOCK from ground to pin 87 and that would be 12v+ to complete the Circuit for the doors to lock.

Here is a Simple Door lock dual relay setup. This isn't mine however it is how it would work for a Reverse Polarity Door lock like you had pictured.

PLEASE NOTE most cars that came with factory Door locks don't use this type of setup so if your car has factory doorlocks it maybe wired different

 

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
Hi James, I talked hawk alarms and they said the shock sensor could work, but I am not sure they really understood. How do I test if I can use it? And are you saying I use the red or the black wire from alarm ?
 

IMP002017

Joined Jan 28, 2017
189
Best and safe way is with a DVOM/DMM. However you could use a Test light seeing it really shouldn't hurt your Alarm. You want to check the output of the Shock sensor in the Disarmed state first.

So your Alarm is disarmed, You take your DVOM/DMM Put the Ground lead to your car ground. Then test the Red wire with luck it is 0 or no measurement. Then find a good spot on 12v side. Put the Red probe. Then touch the ground if it shows nothing then Arm the alarm and test again it and it should show 12v or hope it does anyway. Same with the Red wire put the ground probe back on the ground spot you had it in the first part of the test. Test again the red wire and it should show 12v.

If you have a test light and hope one that does both ground and voltage test with red and green leds. Plug the test light into or connect it to power. Test the test light on the known good power should light up RED. Then with the Alarm off, Test the Red wire Hope nothing lights or even lights with green ever so slightly. Then test the Ground wire again hope with it disarmed that it shows no light on the test light. Arm the system. Test the Red wire and the Red light should come on. Then test the Black wire and it should light the Green LED. This was testing on the Shock Sensor red and black wiring test. Now if you don't have either of them testing types and only have a bulb type tester. Attach to ground test red wire. Then attach to a good 12v side and test the black if it didn't light for either test then arm alarm and again being careful not to trip your alarm test the wiring again. Attach end of test light to ground test red wire should light. attach test light to known good 12v test black wire again test light should light. So doing the test when alarm is disarmed shouldn't have any lights on the test light then armed the test should light the testlight while testing.

James
 

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
Hi James
I have been crazy busy and haven't yet had a chance to test the sensor, I think the sensor I have is a micro wave sensor, I have sent a picture to hawk to ask, I do have a flask light that comes on when the alarm is armed would that work, I'll test it
I really appreciate your help - Cheers Craig
 

IMP002017

Joined Jan 28, 2017
189
Sadly I don't think the Flashing LED would work. Most times or I guess some times I found the flashing is off the Ground part of the Circuit. Again it is something that could be tested with a Meter or test light. If you get a pulse on and off from the ground side it wouldn't work. Your looking for something that will give you constant ground when your alarm is armed. However you could setup something to work with a Constant 12v when armed, just requires more work. There is no rush on doing things, It is your time and your life. When you have the time to do what you need is what is important. Never know maybe there is someone that could come on that knows your system and have a good solution from something they did for their setup. Maybe the maker of the Alarm system will understand there is a need for a Output for Ground when armed and in the next roll out they will offer that connection for other buyers.

When you get to it. Don't stress.
 

Thread Starter

Bluemonkey

Joined Feb 6, 2016
32
Hi Jame, it didn't work the shock sensor and flashing light seem to be positive live whether the alarms armed or not, so not sure where to go from here, any ideas? I used just a simple bulb test
 
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