From back in the a day.

 

Sorry but I suspect that that last generation isn't gullible enough to fall for that and call it honorable honest work any more. They can see what the generations before them got for it and know better.
Yeah but do not disqualify those who try and or know better.

What those people are faced against is a bit different from what we had to fight against. So much is right.But i know that you've had to bow more than you ever wanted...

Reality always wins...

 

For all of those that are getting the "amp" up" or get replaced""

 

And they wonder(no they do not) Why the DDOS...

 

i think what works the best is diversity... there is no such thing as "one fits all", there need to be options. i was so frustrated with crappy "complementary" courses in university, meant to "turn engineers into socially acceptable beings".

 

i think what works the best is diversity... there is no such thing as "one fits all", there need to be options. i was so frustrated with crappy "complementary" courses in university, meant to "turn engineers into socially acceptable beings".

.

 

What those people are faced against is a bit different from what we had to fight against. So much is right.But i know that you've had to bow more than you ever wanted...

Reality always wins...

So much of what I see in people of the next generation is, that like me, most just want to have a job that pays well enough to feel like they matter and have enough respect and appreciation from their employer to not feel like they are getting screwed just for showing up for work every day.

They want an education that actually will serve a functional purpose in their day to day life.

They don't want to play company politics just to stay employed for another day.

They don't want to have to kiss some ego driven idiotic fools fat ass every day to keep their job.

They want to see the management and office people held as accountable for their actions and mistakes as the common labor level worker is.

They want to see that top executive that lost the company months of income pay it back out of his own wages and then get drop kicked so far out door he lands on the next content.

They don't want to be paid $12 an hour while being billed to the customer at 10+ times that and lied to about the real where and why all that billable time money goes every day.

They don't want to be told they get paid poorly because they are 'under qualified' then when they have gotten the skills needed not get jobs because they are now 'overqualified' to work anywhere.

They don't want ot have to work 50+ hours a week 51 weeks a year just to hopefully break even.

In all just like the rest of us they want to have a reason to to get up and do something that is more fulfilling and has more dignity than staying home on welfare but in vocational trade work that is too often a very hard thing to get anymore.

 

i think what works the best is diversity... there is no such thing as "one fits all", there need to be options. i was so frustrated with crappy "complementary" courses in university, meant to "turn engineers into socially acceptable beings".

That was my #1 problem when I went back to college some years ago for my electrical engineering degree as an work experienced older than ravage student. I spent 3 1/2 years of my life and ~$35,000 to take a pile of classes that had almost nothing to do with any from of engineering of any kind and the few that were engineering elated didn't have much relation to EE itself.

In the end I was rather glad I got sick one semester and tore my back up the next putting me out of qualifying for any loans to continue on any further. The last 1/2 a year I had to finish really didn't have what I saw as any real EE related classes anyway.

 

Yeah yeah I need an unpaid intern is what the middle of this thread is about.

Fuck that. and I hope that no one will do your dirty work unless being payed like a person should.

Don't play innocent with me..

 

For those who didn't know....

 

At your own risk...

 

I have a cousin that been apprenticing to be an electrician for a few years now. Like me he has the knack to learn that sort of stuff with ease which also means wasting time to get qualified based solely on hours not actual skills and knowledge gets to him.

Unfortunately, there are those that think time is the only producer of skills. I've seen people argue about people being "advanced" faster than others and typically state they don't have enough time to aquire the skills necessary. Well, if they meet all the minimum metrics, they were qualified. And that is what they are testing. If it were the other direction, there would only be wizards and no journeymen.

 

Well, if they meet all the minimum metrics, they were qualified.

The cashier at the grocery store today met the minimum metrics and, therefore, she was minimally qualified - it was a real pleasant experience.

 

Unfortunately, there are those that think time is the only producer of skills. I've seen people argue about people being "advanced" faster than others and typically state they don't have enough time to aquire the skills necessary. Well, if they meet all the minimum metrics, they were qualified. And that is what they are testing. If it were the other direction, there would only be wizards and no journeymen.

That's been the argument 'I have had for years in jobs regarding advancement. Screw the time spent give me the tests and let me prove I have more than sufficient competence to do the job and do it well.

I have had several now where I was told that to become proficient in that type of work it took 3 - 5 years and I surpassed most of their senior 6+ year guys in knowledge, skill and quality of work 3 - 4 months only to be run off for lame excuses mostly because I was seen as a competent threat to those managing my department even though I had no interest in their job.

It's not that I am that smart or driven but when you're in a company where the average production or service worker is a drunk, druggy, burn out or just developmentally slow the rates others typically proceeded and learned at didn't set much of a standard to begin with.

 

The problem lies with those establishing the minimum standards. It's just like the mechanics using realtime or another provider of the time it takes to repair. typically it's the time for an average mechanic to do the job. So naturally the business will bill at that rate. Those that are slower, the customer doesn't get over billed. However, those that are faster are earning the company more money (the customer is over billed) but the business points to the customer that they had the best technician and they were charged the average time to repair, and that mechanic is typically paid higher for their KSA (Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities).

You, TCM, would be better as a sub-contractor.

Here is an eposide of Uncommon Knowledge ...

 

"There are no solutions, there are trade offs" Well he ain't lying...

 

The problem lies with those establishing the minimum standards. It's just like the mechanics using realtime or another provider of the time it takes to repair. typically it's the time for an average mechanic to do the job. So naturally the business will bill at that rate. Those that are slower, the customer doesn't get over billed. However, those that are faster are earning the company more money (the customer is over billed) but the business points to the customer that they had the best technician and they were charged the average time to repair, and that mechanic is typically paid higher for their KSA (Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities).

Not in a brand dealership, say GM. The mechanics are paid and the job is charged from the "flat rate" book. If the mechanic goes long on time he still only gets paid "X" amount of money for the work. Or at least that's the way it used to happen, could have changed in today's time frame.

 

Paying the mechanic and charging the customer are two different items. If the mechanic is doing piece work, like my buddy who worked for a Ford dealership, was paid 35/billable hour. As a ASE Master Mechanic, he routinely beat the average times. If he went long, he certainly lowered his per/hour productive bucks. If he was short he increased his per hour productive bucks.

So if one completed 10 billable hours per 8 hour day his take for the day was 125 percent higher than if he just met the average times and billed 8 hours per day.

The flat rate book is good for the consumers. There was one for electronics servicing called "Sperry Pricing System" back when there was electronic servicing. I have a copy from the early 1990s.

 

Paying the mechanic and charging the customer are two different items. If the mechanic is doing piece work, like my buddy who worked for a Ford dealership, was paid 35/billable hour. As a ASE Master Mechanic, he routinely beat the average times. If he went long, he certainly lowered his per/hour productive bucks. If he was short he increased his per hour productive bucks.

So if one completed 10 billable hours per 8 hour day his take for the day was 125 percent higher than if he just met the average times and billed 8 hours per day.

One of my first jobs was as a commercial office copier repair tech and I got to be very good at it. Problem was our store was owned and by a greedy old man and it showed badly.

We had a standard rate list for our work as well but that didn't mean crap. If a repair listed as a two hour job ran long the customer got billed the extra time and if we got it done way under the2 hour sheet estimate the customer still got billed the full 2 hour rate whereas us service techs only got paid the time we were on the job. Standard billing rate was $76.50 an hour plus $1 a mile each way for out of town service work of which that was my primary work and I got $8.41 without benefits for doing it.

For many of our routine service calls we had came up with our own kits that in many cases could cut a 2 hour billable copier machine overhaul down to well under an hour! The down side was given that there were many days where I went out of town to do multiple service calls for a single town and did 12 - 14 hours billable and got paid for 8 and not only that, when I hit 5 - 6 customers in a single town back to back everyone of them got billed the out and back 100 mile round trip fee even though I only made one trip total.

One day I got to thinking about that and I had enough. One town I had in my area was pretty close to a 100 mile round trip and I had hit 6 customers for a billable total of 14 hours in my 8 hour day. For that I made $67.28 and billed out $1071 in labor plus they stuck everyone for another $100 travel totaling a company take in of $1671 plus materials for a total outlay of $67.28 to me and maybe $10 in fuel.

After that I reverse padded everything to where a 8 hour work day had less than 8 hours billable and whenever possible only had one customer to hit for travel as well.

In the end my breaking point was when the company got awarded an all parts and consumables included contract that corporate level had acquired with the local air base. That was a $250,000 a year free and clear contract that doubled my workload ~200 more machines) and I got a 13 cent raise for it for the additional ~700 - 800 hours a year (~$100 extra annual pay increase related to that contract work specifically ) I would be spending just on that contract related work.

I quit.

 

I quit.

I would too. Your ethics were better than the owners.

It certainly is a prime example of how not to treat employees. It seems the owner didn't compute his costs correctly. If I were in that town were everyone was billed mileage, I'd be upset.

If he were a "factory authorized" repairer, I'd be calling the factory to complain and if they remained "factory authorized", the next would be laying the story out to a consumer group ... as both the factory and the repairer has questionable ethics.

I doubt mileage was ever intended to be a "for profit" line item.