Bridging the culture gap?

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
I assume you are criticizing the American educational system of rote learning. I can assure you that not all of our universities are like that.

As for other parts of the world, I think your perceptions are based on far too few examples to be generalized to those other cultures.

As for doing something about "it," that's why we exist. All questions from any source are encouraged. Admittedly, we all get a little discouraged sometimes.

The most discouraging thing I find are posters who never come back to give feedback or updates. I think that can be improved by adding something like, "please let us know how it works out" as the thread nears its natural end. A little feedback (e.g., "It worked!") is worth a hundred who we never see again.

John
 

beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Some individuals seem to have subtle difficulties with problem-solving, despite considerable factual knowledge.
This issue is not cultural or language related. In my experience, a group of people who have been trained together and been exposed to comparable materials will not all have similar skills as a result. Some will be able to use their learning to develop a skill set, and some will never be able to function unassisted.

That is probably true of any specialty, and not just electronics. A level of understanding may not be related to a level of education.
 

Thread Starter

Adjuster

Joined Dec 26, 2010
2,148
I assume you are criticizing the American educational system of rote learning. I can assure you that not all of our universities are like that.

As for other parts of the world, I think your perceptions are based on far too few examples to be generalized to those other cultures.

As for doing something about "it," that's why we exist. All questions from any source are encouraged. Admittedly, we all get a little discouraged sometimes.

The most discouraging thing I find are posters who never come back to give feedback or updates. I think that can be improved by adding something like, "please let us know how it works out" as the thread nears its natural end. A little feedback (e.g., "It worked!") is worth a hundred who we never see again.

John
No, I was not criticizing the US educational system, nor people who have studied there. Those are not subjects I would feel qualified to comment on, as I have had not had much relevant experience.

The experience which has led me to this opinion comes mainly from contact with people from certain Eastern countries in the course of my work. This goes back many years before any contact with this forum. I will admit that perhaps I am also influenced by a stereotyped and prejudiced view of people from that region, but note that even in the countries concerned, some people believe that there is far too much rote learning.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
There's far too much rote learning in the US too. So what?

I've had excellent students from all over the world. I really have not seen the difference you imply. There are good, bad, stupid and smart, hard workers and lazy for every country. There may be some issues with single individuals from cultures that believe in or have vestiges of "class," but I have not seen that to be characteristic of the country. Or, maybe its just because they consider me high class? :D

I will say it can be difficult to evaluate the credentials of applicants from many foreign countries. You can't tell the real McCoy from the frauds easily.

John
 

Georacer

Joined Nov 25, 2009
5,182
What I can say, is that countries who have lived in poverty for too long have developped a collective, subconsious opportunism, as a natural result of the everyday strive for survival. I can't ask from someone who lives on 1$ a day to have pristine morals and free time to think about the common good.

I 'd like to think on the other hand, that if someone has access to a computer, an internet connection, the patience to find this site and enough knowledge of english to ask a question, doesn't fall on the above category of people. Therefore, there are no mitigations (does it have a plural?) for this kind of behavior.

However, when internet cafes are getting cheaper and cheaper in the far east, and more people have access to the internet culture everyday, I wonder if a separating line is clear enough.
 

retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,207
The thought pattern is, they are paying for the internet access, so they should get anything they asked for.. After all, that IS WHY they paid for it.

The owners of these internet cafe's go around telling people, "If you save up money to get online at my cafe, you can get enough information to become rich!"... Which is not REALLY a lie.. If the "student" has enough cafe credits to spend the time doing the work.

That is one of the reasons they are alway in a hurry.. so "URGENT!'

They buy a few hours of access, and their queries MUST BE ANSWERED NOW!, or else I'll have to pay again.

It is opportunism, and it is the rich getting richer off the poor.

The guy who owns the cafe, wants to thrive off the poor. The poor cant afford internet in their homes, but hear great things about it.

It is the "Get to America, the streets are paved with gold!" of this generation.

If they can just raise a few (insert currency here), they can get online, and in a few hours, have all they need to thrive!

It has little to nothing to do with "institutional" education.

It has much more to do with "Common knowledge" as "rumored" around.

This internet cafe credits is another reason many of these students do not return to say "it worked" or "it failed".

It would cost them to do so.. and they have already got what they wanted.
 

Georacer

Joined Nov 25, 2009
5,182
So, what are we supposed to do? Blame someone for being too poor or too uneducated to find a good source of information?

It is true that this behavior is annoying, but are they taught any better? For my part, I will continue to repeat the forum rules to any newcomers: "We are glad to help you, if you show the will to work too". Without any prejudice or emotional predisposition.

To be honest, I am more dissapointed with some members who have reached 200 posts and are still asking the same questions since post #1.
 

retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,207
So, what are we supposed to do? Blame someone for being too poor or too uneducated to find a good source of information?

It is true that this behavior is annoying, but are they taught any better? For my part, I will continue to repeat the forum rules to any newcomers: "We are glad to help you, if you show the will to work too". Without any prejudice or emotional predisposition.

To be honest, I am more dissapointed with some members who have reached 200 posts and are still asking the same questions since post #1.
Not at all. There is no need to "blame" anyone.

But understanding is helpful.

Getting the truth out in the beginning of the thread to keep from using too many resources on someone who may not care what you have to say.


I would rather help more people, then use more teachers to help one.

I still try to help. I try to post schematics, and links to completed projects or educational material.

If they say thanks, then READ THE MATERIAL, then ask a question about it, then all is good.

But when they dismiss it, and want the "trick" ...."NOW" it isnt worth other's educations to try to convince them.

Treat it like automotive. If it is something that is possible here, then help.

If it is not, say it is not, and move on.

REGARDLESS OF SEX, AGE, RELIGIOUS CREED, RACE, or SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS!

We know if special equipment is required.. If they keep saying "Well Id like to try without it" TOO BAD!

We are talking about dangerous voltages and currents!

Inverters are like mains! With no test equipment, and the urge to try WITHOUT it, that shows lack of care about safety.

Bertus does it right. Link to the educational parts that WE KNOW they need to have before offering them a schematic for a 1000w system.
 

Georacer

Joined Nov 25, 2009
5,182
No objections there. And let's always keep in mind that what we do here is a hobby or public service, not a job. So if we don't feel like helping some smart-asses, we don't have to. No need to explain why. If this site has a reputation, it has it for a reason, you don't have to prove it in every post. Values stay over time with long-term characteristics, don't let some ignorant punks get to you.

Ignoring people has personally done me much good in my life. You don't want to raise your blood pressure too high!
 

retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,207
Agreed.

Even a:

"We wont be able to help you with that here. You may better spend your time searching other forums or search engines. If you are serious about educating yourself in this field, download and read the AAC eBook, and as many educational sources you can. Doing so will help you understand and help you to design your idea in the future. And save you time by allowing you to read and study off-line. Be safe, and have fun."
 

thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
I'd still love the admins to add the plugin that shows the country of origin's flag above location.

The "issue posters" that seem to be the topic of this thread are one group that never fill out their location. The other group that never fills out their location are those that think the will make a bazillion bucks if only we solve one tiny (impossible) problem for them.

I've given up on even considering going to the lengths that some of our better posters here do, showing waveforms, schematic options, etc, until the member asking the question somehow shows an ability to learn and do a bit of independent research (cross-posting on other forums with the same question doesn't count in that last criterion, it counts negative).

If a member has an idea and a desire/ability to learn, I'll hold his hand in PMs until he gets up and going with the goal. If they want a packaged answer because <insert any of thousands of excuses here>, I don't add much input, unless they show signs of promise.

The flag thing helps understand if they may be using an online translator, when they may be on, and most importantly, which parts they can get ahold of. It should be next to username. The current location tag can be filled with whatever the member wants, which opens the path to misleading as well, it has happened before... "If you thought I wasn't in the US, I figured you wouldn't help"... The nation flag by IP helps that (if implemented... PLEASE!!!???).

The rest of my post would simply consist of repeating Retched above.

On that note, can anybody tell me how to make my soundcard into a 1Ghz scope and logic analyzer for under $50? I've seen screen shots, so I KNOW one of you evil americans has the secret!!!
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
I'd still love the admins to add the plugin that shows the country of origin's flag above location.

The "issue posters" that seem to be the topic of this thread are one group that never fill out their location. The other group that never fills out their location are those that think the will make a bazillion bucks if only we solve one tiny (impossible) problem for them.

I've given up on even considering going to the lengths that some of our better posters here do, showing waveforms, schematic options, etc, until the member asking the question somehow shows an ability to learn and do a bit of independent research (cross-posting on other forums with the same question doesn't count in that last criterion, it counts negative).

If a member has an idea and a desire/ability to learn, I'll hold his hand in PMs until he gets up and going with the goal. If they want a packaged answer because <insert any of thousands of excuses here>, I don't add much input, unless they show signs of promise.

The flag thing helps understand if they may be using an online translator, when they may be on, and most importantly, which parts they can get ahold of. It should be next to username. The current location tag can be filled with whatever the member wants, which opens the path to misleading as well, it has happened before... "If you thought I wasn't in the US, I figured you wouldn't help"... The nation flag by IP helps that (if implemented... PLEASE!!!???).

The rest of my post would simply consist of repeating Retched above.

On that note, can anybody tell me how to make my soundcard into a 1Ghz scope and logic analyzer for under $50? I've seen screen shots, so I KNOW one of you evil americans has the secret!!!
I was going to make this a topic of it's own post but there should be some kind of rating system for posters. A merit, demerit sort of thing.

A merit might be given for asking well thought our questions,showing you did homework on your own etc.

Demerits would be given for asking a question that could obviously be solved by a search or the one I hate the worst NO FEEDBACK. It drives me crazy when folks ask a question and you ask a followup question to try and help and they never get back to you. Bad enough when they do not say thanks it worked or you idiot your information was all wrong.

Merits, Demerits and Thanks could show up in the user's profile.

Get more than X demerits and (fill in your favorite punishment :) )
 

thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
I was going to make this a topic of it's own post but there should be some kind of rating system for posters. A merit, demerit sort of thing.

A merit might be given for asking well thought our questions,showing you did homework on your own etc.

Demerits would be given for asking a question that could obviously be solved by a search or the one I hate the worst NO FEEDBACK. It drives me crazy when folks ask a question and you ask a followup question to try and help and they never get back to you. Bad enough when they do not say thanks it worked or you idiot your information was all wrong.

Merits, Demerits and Thanks could show up in the user's profile.

Get more than X demerits and (fill in your favorite punishment :) )
I like that, a "Reputation Level" type meter, starts in the middle and can swing either way.

Another cool addition possible with the server move, though I can see reasons not to have such a system, namely, abuse from ego matches.
 

retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,207
I was going to make this a topic of it's own post but there should be some kind of rating system for posters. A merit, demerit sort of thing.

A merit might be given for asking well thought our questions,showing you did homework on your own etc.

Demerits would be given for asking a question that could obviously be solved by a search or the one I hate the worst NO FEEDBACK. It drives me crazy when folks ask a question and you ask a followup question to try and help and they never get back to you. Bad enough when they do not say thanks it worked or you idiot your information was all wrong.

Merits, Demerits and Thanks could show up in the user's profile.

Get more than X demerits and (fill in your favorite punishment :) )
There is a rating add-on for vBulletin called "reputation"

If you see other sites have "green lights" under your name.

The better you do, the more lights you have.

Anyone can click on any of your posts and offer to increase or decrease your reputation.

I dont know how great of an idea it is or not... Im leaning against it.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
I do have an opinion about a reputation system and have seen how it works on another electronics site. It is abused, corrupted, and worthless. It also is the source of hard feelings. If you want change, please suggest how such rankings will be validated and what real advantage they would provide.

John
 

Georacer

Joined Nov 25, 2009
5,182
I 'm a big fan of achievements in games and such, but I am very sceptical of a reputation system in AAC. As we have said before, it's not the number of posts that count, but the essence.
And while the first is very well measurable, the second is not by any means. One solution would be to have the mods distribute those points, but this is problematic too.
They already have their hands full as I see it and they are not perfect judges of every situation.

Why would we need a point sytem anyway? We already know by now who are the major league players of the forum, and as for the hit'n'run posters, they won't stay for long for the status to have any effect.
The system will only serve as bragging rights among the frequent members and I don't think you wish to turn me into the thumbs-up whore I can very easilly be...:cool:

P.S. thumbs-up whore: [noun] a person who reaches to any extend in order to increase its thumbs-up count in order to fullfil its ego and achieve a false sense of self-accomplishment and glory deriving from esoteric insecurities.

P.S.2 You all know that you hide a tiny small Napoleon inside you, don't you?
 

Kermit2

Joined Feb 5, 2010
4,162
You get out of this place, pretty much what you put in to it.

Come here looking for easy answers, or to cheat on homework and mostly you fail.

Those who provide feedback and answer questions usually get what they want and are happy, even if they can't do what they wanted in regards to their question.

Why try to fix something that ain't broke?


Location would be nice to have as a visible bit of data on a persons post. I don't know about waving flags around though. That seems so High school Pep rally-ish. To easy to whip up bad emotions that way.

Firecracker firecracker shish boom bah, bugs bunny bugs bunny, rah rah rah.

:)
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
I am with kermit2 on this. I like location, but not flags, regardless of how proud I am of my flag.

Bertus had a good compromise solution with adding time zone. Just make it mandatory and require that it be correct in GMT/UTC, not something screwy like Mars or 2080 CE.

John
 
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