I'm guessing you believe that the Airbus A320 should have never been put in the air too.

The alpha protection wasn’t stopping him from climbing, it was stopping him from stalling.

 

The one where black boxes where allegedly tampered with? I understand your point I think, Boeing is doing now what Aerobus did then?

I think you misunderstand my position, or I yours.

https://www.aerotime.aero/aerotime....uld-air-france-f447-have-happened-with-boeing

 

The one where black boxes where allegedly tampered with? I understand your point I think, Boeing is doing now what Aerobus did then?

I think you misunderstand my position, or I yours.

https://www.aerotime.aero/aerotime....uld-air-france-f447-have-happened-with-boeing

From another thread elsewhere on this topic.
"Airliners crash very infrequently these days. It can certainly be said that the Boeing design philosophy contributed to these crashes, but it can also be said about the Airbus design philosophy. Neither is perfect."

Allegedly tampered with? Don't believe in conspiracy theories. Yes, Boeing is moving into the age of full automation and is having problems bootstrapping modern technology into a plane from 1968 when people were expected to load the plane from ladders.

 

Allegedly tampered with? Don't believe in conspiracy theories. Yes, Boeing is moving into the age of full automation and is having problems bootstrapping modern technology into a plane from 1968 when people were expected to load the plane from ladders.

I still board a plane from a ladder... I fly de Havilland Beaver regularly and I like the fact that the pilot is in full control.

Remember the redesign was not about safety but about fuel efficiency and maximizing profit for all companies involved.



A similar plane went down 2 years ago down south. Several people drowned. New regulations will be put in place calling for passengers to wear life vests during flight. There are interesting discussions around this regulation between regular fliers and pilots. These freak out the tourists.

Sorry for slight change in subject

 

I still board a plane from a ladder... I fly de Havilland Beaver regularly and I like the fact that the pilot is in full control.

Remember the redesign was not about safety but about fuel efficiency and maximizing profit for all companies involved.

It's always about maximizing profit for all companies involved at some approved level of safety. Most of us don't think that level of safety on the 737 MAX has been met.
I think we are seeing a preview of the self-driving car liability cases before full level 5 automation where the drivers shares responsibility with automation especially in extreme driving circumstances. There will be engineering failures in concert with human driving mistakes and people will die because of those failures. Trying to destroy companies because we are human and make mistakes (without criminal intent) is foolish.

 

Trying to destroy companies because we are human and make mistakes (without criminal intent) is foolish.

The medical profession comes to mind ...

 

It's always about maximizing profit for all companies involved at some approved level of safety. Most of us don't think that level of safety on the 737 MAX has been met.
I think we are seeing a preview of the self-driving car liability cases before full level 5 automation where the drivers shares responsibility with automation especially in extreme driving circumstances. There will be engineering failures in concert with human driving mistakes and people will die because of those failures. Trying to destroy companies because we are human and make mistakes (without criminal intent) is foolish.

The medical profession comes to mind ...

Precisely why this incident has caught my attention. Medical field likes to look to aviation regulations for examples of how to do things right... I think I will bow out of this conversation now.

 

I wonder if foreign software engineers working in the U.S. on an H1-B visa were involved in writing the program for the Boeing MCAS?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_a_New_American_Economy

Take a look at who's number 4 on the list of co-chairs.

 

I wonder if foreign software engineers working in the U.S. on an H1-B visa were involved in writing the program for the Boeing MCAS?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_a_New_American_Economy

Take a look at who's number 4 on the list of co-chairs.

Really? Really?

 

http://www.askthepilot.com/ethiopian-737max-crash/

Yet they did not, could not, regain control. The reason, many now believe, is a design quirk of the 737 — an idiosyncrasy that reveals itself in only the rarest of circumstances, and that few 737 pilots are aware of. When the plane’s stabilizers are acting to push the nose down, and the control column is simultaneously pulled aft, a sort of aerodynamic lockout forms: airflow forces on the stabilizers effectively paralyze them, making them impossible to move manually.

Aboard flight 302, the scenario goes like this: Commands of the faulty MCAS are causing the automatic trim system to push the nose down. The pilots, trying to arrest this descent, are pulling aft on the control column. Thus setting up this scenario perfectly. The trim forces are stronger than the control column forces, which is why pulling back on the column has no effect. But now, with power to the trim system shut off, they can lift the nose by manually by rotating the trim wheel aft, relieving that unwanted nose-down push. But the wheel won’t move. Believing the manual trim is itself broken, the pilots then reengaged the auto-trim. MCAS then kicks in again, pushing the nose down even further. What’s worse, as the plane’s speed increases, the lockout effect intensifies.And so with every passing second it becomes more and more difficult to recover.

The correct course of action would be to relax pressure on the control column, perhaps to the point of pushing the nose down even further. This will free the stabilizers of the aerodynamic weirdness that is paralyzing them, and allow the trim wheel to move, realigning the stabilizers to a proper and safe position. For the pilots, though, such a move would be completely counterintuitive. Instead, they do what any pilots would be expected to do under the circumstances. Turns out it’s the wrong thing, but really they have no way of knowing.
...
Apparently, pilots of older-generation 737s — long before there was MCAS — were aware of the lockout potential, and some were trained accordingly. (I flew the “classic” 737-200, briefly, about twenty years ago, but have no memory of it one way or the other.) However, as an obscure phenomenon that no pilot was likely to ever encounter, it was eventually forgotten as the 737 line evolved, to the point where no mention of it appears in the manuals of later variants.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/620200-737-stuck-manual-trim-technique.html

 

 

Trump made the comment that Boeing should fix the problem and just "rebrand" the plane.

In other words, eradicate any decals or labels that contain any reference to the words "Boeing" or "737". So when you board the plane, it will be just a "generic" model aircraft like the stuff you see on the shelf at Walgreens drug stores. .

 

Trump made the comment that Boeing should fix the problem and just "rebrand" the plane.

In other words, eradicate any decals or labels that contain any reference to the words "Boeing" or "737". So when you board the plane, it will be just a "generic" model aircraft like the stuff you see on the shelf at Walgreens drug stores. .

How about if we just reverse the numbers?

 

How about if we just reverse the numbers?

They could call it a XAM 737.

 

They could call it a XAM 737.

That sounds like a Mexican radio station.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XEG-AM

 

 

Well I just got caught up in this whole 737 Max mess. I had a flight out of Pittsburgh to Portland this summer. It was perfect. I was leaving at around 10AM (I hate those early west coast flights) and arrived in Portland around 2:30 PM Portland time. Had one stop in Chicago

Well my 10AM flight out was cancelled. Now instead of 1 hour in Chicago I now have 3 and arrive in Portland at 2:30. The good news is I still have my bulkhead aisle seat on both flights. Also last year I only had an hour in Detroit, there was weather in Detroit and my flight arrived late. They were closing the doors on the Portland flight when my flight was deplaning. The whole time they promised us the departing flights would be held. They did not hold them one minute. Now O have 3 hours to play with,

I can reduce the total time by an hour by going through Phoenix but it is not worth it.

Why would the airlines buy in such big time in a new aircraft? By a few and then shake them out. Once it is proven only then buy more.

 

That was painful I could not watch more than 5 minutes.

 

That was painful I could not watch more than 5 minutes.

He makes the point quite powerfully that the air-frame was not at fault.

 

I like the whole part, except at the last when he said automation was coming to cars. I do not like the idea of software approved driving.