I actually thought about that in years past. How would I respond if such an organization published a tribute to their dead? And I remembered those Union veterans decorating Confederate graves just three years after the Civil War. I'm willing to let them mourn and even honor their dead, even though I am utterly opposed to what they are fighting for.

Not much difference for me as an Englishman visiting the area occupying war graves in the libyan desert after WW11, of both the allies and the German, I did not have any feeling of animosity to dead of the previous enemy.
Max.

 

I have read repeatedly that solders of opposing armies usually have less animosity than the civilian population. Don't know if it is true.

The logic is that the other side is often demonized by the governments, while the troops see the other guys are human, much like them in most ways. There is hate, but also reality.

 

I had to go back and read it a few times. That anything you wrote could be construed as "offensive" is, to me, deeply offensive.

You know the modern view of free speech is that you get to complain and make a total butt of your self about anything you want until someone removes whatever is that you claim to be offended by but no one else has any right to complain about your complaining let alone should expect you yourself to stop saying what they don't like.

Now stop being offended by being offended because its offending me and my freedom to be offended outranks your freedom (because I say so and I likely have more free time to complain than you do) to be offended otherwise if you don't stop being offended I will become more offended and complain until you are forced to stop being offended by everyone who is sick of hearing me complain about you.

I think that's how freedom of speech works now right?

 

..Sounds like a familiar Monty Python sketch.
Max.

 

It will be our loss if members like WBahn or Chips leaves.

Chips isn't leaving. He just doesn't want to be a mod anymore.

 

I have read repeatedly that solders of opposing armies usually have less animosity than the civilian population. Don't know if it is true.

There is evidence. My grandfather – the son of a German immigrant serving his new country in the trenches in WWI – was an eyewitness and participant to this.

A flag was presented to my grandmother by the honor guard at his funeral. Folded in a triangle, it rests in a display case on my mantle. In a small way it helped to teach my children that history matters.

 

Maybe, just maybe the civilian population has animosity towards soldiers because of what they do during an occupation - rob, kill, rape. This is not to offend anyone, but well documented tactics in terms of conquering an enemy used for ages and well into current times. I have both good and bad stories about German soldiers from my family - some were nice and gave candy to starving kids... others set dogs off on them.

in reply to Wbahn - you proposed to let the world know that you are ready to fight. I don't find that a suitable tribute and I know many vets who would agree with you. People fought out of necessity and with hope to never fight again. The posturing is inappropriate. This paragraph reminded me of the speech Putin gave at May 9th this year which was made in same tone.

The Arctic Convoy http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...s-with-russia/article18233755/?service=mobile

 

The animosity is there whether the civilian population is involved or not, such as the USA during WWII. The folks doing the dirty work have to look at the people they kill, they know they are people. There is a disconnect between the civilian population that can not be cured.

One of the dubious advantages of age is you get to see some of the idiosyncrasies people do over time. Sometimes they aren't pretty.

 

Rationalizations aside, stifling the speech of another is hardly in keeping with the principle of free speech!

That said, as per WBahn's comments (above), free speech (though, IMO, arguably, a basic human right) is, unfortunately, not a universal civil right... --- In any event, if the current state of affairs is cool with WBahn it's good enough for me!

Welcome back!
HP

Let's see, you decide to attend a lecture but instead of sitting quietly and perhaps listening you instead start singing out your favorite pop song as you thing that is some improvement.

Nope, not “free speech.” Not even close, and you can expect someone to come by and “close your thread” by physical means if necessary if you do not leave on your own when directed to do so.

Many Americans mistake the right to free speech to mean saying anything anytime anywhere, where it is actually a constitutional limit of government control of speech. Individuals and organizations can and do make other rules.

Can you use your cell phone for free speech while at work?

 

I have both good and bad stories about German soldiers from my family - some were nice and gave candy to starving kids... others set dogs off on them.

Then there were my relatives who either used the candy to lure out the starving children so the dogs didn't have to work so hard or gave the children candy after the dogs got tired.

I tried that with my daughter only using our kitties. It didn't work so well. She ate the candy while befriending the kitties.

Now everyone wonders why 'Grumpy Cat' is one of the nicest kitties we have. well............ she didn't used to be.

 

The citizens of other nations fall into a broad spectrum with respect to their views of differing nations. The same individuals fall into a broad spectrum with respect to their own nation.

I do not have to like or even respect another's nation. I do respect someone's right to have an opinion, even if it differs than mine. If I choose to engage in a conversation about their opinion, maybe there could be something garnered in that dialog. The same applies to them with respect of my opines.

I put up that video, using an audio file I did in 2003, giving a little of the history of Memorial Day. It also mentioned that humanity has been honoring their war dead for at least 24 centuries. If anyone else put up a tribute to their countrymen's sacrifices, I would respect that. I guess the real question I have ... "Is there a day of remembrance similar to our Memorial Day, where a nation honors their warriors."

I'm sure you will find similarities between the nations honoring their dead, as we all share humanity. What we don't share is politics.

When I was in Italy some of the local Italians expressed to wanting more "freedoms" like Americans. In fact, while I was there, on man was about to unite Italy, a political feat not seen since Mussolini. Unfortunately, before that election, the man was kidnapped and killed. I seem to recall "Brigada Rosa" was the prime suspects for the kidnapping. I don't know what his political leaning as I didn't follow Italian politics other than what the locals were telling me.

Humanity has more in common than the political binds that tie individuals together as a nation. The internet only allows us a biased peek into the other's arena. The common bond between us at this forum is our association with electronics.

 

Maybe, just maybe the civilian population has animosity towards soldiers because of what they do during an occupation - rob, kill, rape.

Occupying armies have been doing that since the beginning of occupying forces, this is nothing new. This does not make it right.

Those that engage in such behavior are wrong and it's up to their own government to take action via the Agreements in place, in other words, punish those guilty of such activities against a civilian populace.

It is truly unfortunate that those things happen, but, the society where the armed forces get their recruits has those same problems. We have met the enemy and they are us. Until there is a perfect society where all countries can get their armed forces recruits, that ugliness could rear it's head.

 

...you can expect someone to come by and “close your thread” by physical means if necessary if you do not leave on your own when directed to do so...

Many Americans mistake the right to free speech to mean saying anything anytime anywhere...

And all this time I thought the stereotype held that 'Americans' (i.e. US residents/citizens) are obsessed with private property rights to the exclusion of all else? Golly! Golly!

That said, as per WBahn's comments (above), free speech (though, IMO, arguably, a basic human right) is, unfortunately, not a universal civil right...

What part of "not a universal civil right" did I fail to convey?

Just so we understand each other, I hold that freedom of expression is 'just' because, IMO, it is a fundamental human right - documents and doctrines (e.g. The US Constitution, The Atlantic Charter, Etc...) aside --- (Good) law reflects justice -- Howbeit nothing is 'just' merely because it conforms to, or complies with, law! --- Perhaps we're at cross purposes?

'Pinin for a return to a 'politics free' AAC
HP

 

And how is it that you cannot apply that paragraph to your own nation. Are you NOT willing to stand up and be counted if and when the time comes to secure those freedoms for your children and future generations? If you are not, then that is on you.

As for the US ignoring the Soviet contribution to WWII, I would love to compare history books (I really would -- I think it would be very interesting and enlightening). Even though I grew up during the latter part of the Cold War, all of my history books spent a pretty considerable part of their treatment of WWII on the Soviet involvement and contributions -- and the great human toll suffered by the Soviet Union by both military and civilian populations.

WBahn, our nations have been neighbors since their births, and history has shown that we've had agreements and disagreements. And as a non-American, I can honestly say that I found nothing disagreeable with what you said in your original post. Quite the contrary.
You spoke from the heart, and that is something that I've always admired and respected.