Best product for measuring emitted wifi signals from any device

Thread Starter

serious_electron

Joined Nov 9, 2023
8
Hello,



I am an electronic hobbyist, basically a noob, trying to research into the field of rf/wifi signal hacking, protection. I am looking for best ideal device that can measure the accurate frequency/bandwith/channel of the emitted wifi signal from any device (laptop, mobile, tablet) etc.

I came across one such device named “ GQ EMF 390 “ RF detector




I am not sure if its accurate enough to detect the signals with some distance and will it be able to detect higher frequency bandwidth like 6-7ghz wifi 6e? Not sure if it even gives the exact frequency of the detected signal (like 2.4ghz, 5.8ghz etc)?



My primary reason is to know if any device (be it laptop, mobile, tablet, or even regular consumer electronics like light bulbs, refrigerators, light sockets, remote controllers etc) have any rogue wifi or any other built in “hidden” rf transceivers to capture and transmit audio/video etc covertly.



Or is a spectrum analyzer more accurate and can give correct reading of the frequency of the emitted signal from any rogue device? If yes then which model can one suggest?



Thanks.
 

Thread Starter

serious_electron

Joined Nov 9, 2023
8
My main focus is to analyse what kind of “UNWANTED” wireless signals are emitted from various “rogue” and “compromised” devices. Primarily when someone is a “target” for unauthorized data exfiltration (high profile hacking), I noticed that even air gapped systems (like laptops, notebooks, mobiles, tablets etc with every wireless card and lan adapter physically removed) are able to emit radio/gsm or other forms of signals to capture and transmit audio and video data to and from nearest wifi router/device along with giving full access to compromised machine itself by the hacker in real time. Which means the hacker virtually has full control over the system in real time, the moment victim opens the lid and push the power on button.

Which in conclusion means that, whatever one does even in an “air gapped” machine (with every wireless internal/external card or lan wire physically removed), can also be recorded and have access to by the hackers in real time. This is usually achieved when the compromised air gapped machine has some sort of hidden malware “deceptive” transceiver chip planted inside the motherboard (or main cpu processor itself) that constantly sends/receive data in real time virtually giving carte-blanch access to the victim’s machine by the hackers even in an air gapped state.

In such a scenario, it becomes extremely risky if the victim plans to venture into projects like developing his/her own movie scripts, 3d plans, or prepare for litigation against powerful agencies. As whatever he/she does even in his air gapped machine will eventually be leaked and ends up in the hands of the adversaries, nullifying all of his efforts, hard work and creativity.

What I feel the best can be done in such a scenario is to either switch to paper/pen based model. Or rely on a system (Counter Surveillance Device) that can detect the presence of such rogue signals so that the particular device in question can either be rectified or be discarded.

After doing lots of research, I came across couple of such devices (however both of them are way too expensive in terms of cost affordability). Following :

[ DeltaX G2 - Countersurveillance sweeping system ]



[ ANDRE® Deluxe Near-field Detection Receiver ]


They both seem to be out of reach from a common man’s pocket. However, with proper knowledge, guidance and information I am confident that one can shortlist a suitable spectrum analyzer that can do the similar detection job without hurting too much on the pocket. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,074
In such a scenario, it becomes extremely risky if the victim plans to venture into projects like developing his/her own movie scripts, 3d plans, or prepare for litigation against powerful agencies. As whatever he/she does even in his air gapped machine will eventually be leaked and ends up in the hands of the adversaries, nullifying all of his efforts, hard work and creativity.
If the "victim" is that paranoid about hackers and "powerful agencies", than the answer is simple.
Use a machine not connected to WiFi or the Internet, and transfer your data only with a USB memory stick to another machine not connected.
After doing lots of research, I came across couple of such devices (however both of them are way too expensive in terms of cost affordability)
To do what you want requires complex, sophisticated equipment, which is not cheap.
Doubt there's anything in your price range for that.
 
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Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
8,975
I don’t believe there are undocumented, embedded radios in laptops capable of operating as GSM, Wi-Fi, or any other sort of transceiver. Why do you think such things exist?
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
8,975
That article is mostly content-free but one important paragraph is near the end:

"Filling in some more details of the NSA surveillance programmes revealed by whistleblower Edward Snowden in June 2013, the report said the transceivers must be physically inserted by a spy, a manufacturer or an unwitting user."

So, yes—if someone covertly puts a radio in your computer then there is going to be a covert radio in your computer. And, even if someone does, the lack of networking means the eavesdropping has to be done close by.

So, even in light of that article I stand by my original statement:

I don’t believe there are undocumented, embedded radios in laptops capable of operating as GSM, Wi-Fi, or any other sort of transceiver.
Now, if you are a target of the NSA or some other TLA, you probably have more to worry about than whether there is a detectable transceiver operating in your computer. And, if you are such a target, cost is not going to be an object, nor is armchair counter-surveillance going to be a solution.

This really doesn't seem to be a practical concern, and to slightly reword my question to make it clearer, why do you think you (or your associates) are targets of such surveillance and why do you imagine in-the-clear questions in a public forum wouldn't be seen and acted on by the agency with an interest?
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,822
RE: Serious
I bought that GQ390 many years ago and had never have fails with it. My verdict - the very good instrument. However - it cannot measure LEVEL over 6 GHz, it CAN measure frequencies not of all signals but at certain ranges in Shortwave, UHF and phone ranges. Thus, that is instrument for amplitude measuring and frequency resolution is the aside (surplus) functionality. When the target is precizity of frequency but the amplitude exactness is aside aim (thus the RELATIVE amplitude data is good enough with no aim to know exact calibrated V/m value) then SLR dongle is the best solution. There are three options - dongle with 5$ cost working in range between 40 MHz and 2.5 GHz or much better thing the RF-Hack-001 within about 200$ priceing, it normally work between 50 kHz and 6 GHz (some newest models up to 12 GHz). Yet here may be considered as well the two antennometer modells - one is N1201SA (under 100$) with it stronger twins having lower frequency hard below 35 MHz and upper even above 3.5 GHz, but then 200-300$. And other is cheaper price model Antenna analyser Nano-VNA the cheapest having price about 20$ and expensivest about 150$ depending on TFT size and frequency range. These are well suited even for 50 kHz analysing, as well up to 6 GHz. May search, probably some younger and faster is already on the tray.
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
8,975
Gentlemen --
It’s an interesting interview, but what is the relevance to the device you are talking about and its usefulness?
Why are you focusing on the least likely attack vector for a person who is not very interesting to the government? And, what do you think you can do about it if you manage to detect “something”?

Even if privacy is a an issue to be addressed, it doesn’t make sniffing covert radios an action item.
 

Thread Starter

serious_electron

Joined Nov 9, 2023
8
It’s an interesting interview, but what is the relevance to the device you are talking about and its usefulness?
Why are you focusing on the least likely attack vector for a person who is not very interesting to the government? And, what do you think you can do about it if you manage to detect “something”?

Even if privacy is a an issue to be addressed, it doesn’t make sniffing covert radios an action item.
I intend to share this above interview out of concern (as the information in the video indicates) that virtually everone is under some sort of surveillance. It includes innocent whistleblowers, regular law abiding residents and citizens.
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
8,975
I intend to share this above interview out of concern (as the information in the video indicates) that virtually everone is under some sort of surveillance. It includes innocent whistleblowers, regular law abiding residents and citizens.
OK, but you started a thread in Wireless & RF Design. General discussion about privacy is off-topic in this forum. There is a long-running thread called, I think, “Privacy Lost”. You can search for that one and contribute to it if you’d like.

If you can’t find it, I’ll track it down for you.
 

Thread Starter

serious_electron

Joined Nov 9, 2023
8
RE: Serious
I bought that GQ390 many years ago and had never have fails with it. My verdict - the very good instrument. However - it cannot measure LEVEL over 6 GHz, it CAN measure frequencies not of all signals but at certain ranges in Shortwave, UHF and phone ranges. Thus, that is instrument for amplitude measuring and frequency resolution is the aside (surplus) functionality. When the target is precizity of frequency but the amplitude exactness is aside aim (thus the RELATIVE amplitude data is good enough with no aim to know exact calibrated V/m value) then SLR dongle is the best solution. There are three options - dongle with 5$ cost working in range between 40 MHz and 2.5 GHz or much better thing the RF-Hack-001 within about 200$ priceing, it normally work between 50 kHz and 6 GHz (some newest models up to 12 GHz). Yet here may be considered as well the two antennometer modells - one is N1201SA (under 100$) with it stronger twins having lower frequency hard below 35 MHz and upper even above 3.5 GHz, but then 200-300$. And other is cheaper price model Antenna analyser Nano-VNA the cheapest having price about 20$ and expensivest about 150$ depending on TFT size and frequency range. These are well suited even for 50 kHz analysing, as well up to 6 GHz. May search, probably some younger and faster is already on the tray.
 

Thread Starter

serious_electron

Joined Nov 9, 2023
8
RE: Serious
I bought that GQ390 many years ago and had never have fails with it. My verdict - the very good instrument. However - it cannot measure LEVEL over 6 GHz, it CAN measure frequencies not of all signals but at certain ranges in Shortwave, UHF and phone ranges. Thus, that is instrument for amplitude measuring and frequency resolution is the aside (surplus) functionality. When the target is precizity of frequency but the amplitude exactness is aside aim (thus the RELATIVE amplitude data is good enough with no aim to know exact calibrated V/m value) then SLR dongle is the best solution. There are three options - dongle with 5$ cost working in range between 40 MHz and 2.5 GHz or much better thing the RF-Hack-001 within about 200$ priceing, it normally work between 50 kHz and 6 GHz (some newest models up to 12 GHz). Yet here may be considered as well the two antennometer modells - one is N1201SA (under 100$) with it stronger twins having lower frequency hard below 35 MHz and upper even above 3.5 GHz, but then 200-300$. And other is cheaper price model Antenna analyser Nano-VNA the cheapest having price about 20$ and expensivest about 150$ depending on TFT size and frequency range. These are well suited even for 50 kHz analysing, as well up to 6 GHz. May search, probably some younger and faster is already on the tray.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,822
Once I got a very tiny financing for short project to to elaborate the radar peak immission detector when frequency is 3 GHz to 300 GHz and power is terawatts with needle time against period rate 1:1000 000 or even larger, when measurements made several kilometers away from antenna. Thus no even thought about do it classical elmag way. The idea was to use three different materials warming up slightly at vacuum and then temperature difference between non-warming and strong warming characterizes V/m for field and difference between slight warming and strong warming indirectly characterizes the frequency. Thus for non warming was chosen the quartz-glass, for warming was chosen the tabletized nanocarbon powder, and slightly warmed had few candidates. The first version yet had idea of liquids - "electronic fluid", benzene and water as most warming. The temperatures was planed to measure with ultra-sensitive IC having straight digital output to Atmel-32 thus having metrological sound calibration of 0.01 C but RELATIVE sensitivity (and we dont need anything better) about 10 microCelsius. Yet soon became clear that work with full sensitivity is clear nonsense, mut about miliCelsius signal becomes less wild, but that sensitivity was improperly robust to have needed field sensitivity. So the Project soon ended with half-opened mouth. However, if there would be a more money and time, It wasnt hopeless to pluck some useful results.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,822
Autocorrect got you, it turned your Software Defined Radio dongle into a Single Lens Reflex… dongle? Interesting idea…
Yeppp, sorry, I mean the SDR!!!
Just going too frequently to our SLR station the wrong abbreviature made a stamp in the poor brain. :) :)
SLR=Satellite Laser Ranging (by the way, to demonstrate the might, in distance 65 000 km the measurement accuracy is between 1mm and 3 mm)
SDR=Software Defined Radio
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,822
RE: Serious electron:
Few thoughts about sensing someone is being the World most central Navel worth to be spied.

Know now the new wave of covid is growing again. Just I noted that 7 of my well known friends yet those we meet face in face probably once in a two years, claim they have a covid according self-test kit results.
I look in the official statistics - 29 covid ill people in the whole the State. Thus if I know personally 7 of those 29 probably I am hidden navel of Planet, huh! :) Yet I believe the saying that exist a Lies, Grand Lies and Statistics is more probable source of such misconception.

Similarly with thought that BigBrother is listening every my word - I can believe such exist in russia with having long traditions about kgb slaughterhouses, but nowadays.... in the free world.... nope. However my father was soviet power enemy number 001 in the Balticum region and indeed he was slaugtered about 1989 few weeks before Revolution in very suspicious obstacles. Today I would say it was Novichok, but no any proofs. He was simply killed instead of to be spied by elmag waves what is sure too expensive method against freethinkers. Sure You none is the World Navel and there is no reason why to suspect You are spied.

In the same time many telecommunications objects and even military objects, airports etc have rather poor knowledge about radiofrequency sanitary so they emitts so much energy that at place of residential area the RF imission is sure over the Law stated limitations. In the whole world it becomes elaborated and sustained by ICNIRP organisation thus the most of 200++ States had been adapted ICNIRP normatives for resident health reason. And if You just walking down the street may find such overstep of State binding normative in each second streetbloke, means the State Surveilence works so much lazy (or corrupted) that it is a personal meaning to test it in own bedroom what is the status, in the workplace etc. As our lab is every day using a sub-kilowatt strong plasma generators where RF power is radiated into plasma by open coil, I have rather effective plan to cover it all by safety measurements, thus I must say, in our lab the RF irradiation is with a factor of 10 smaller than in gross food shop having a telecom antenna over the roof.
 
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