Are We Living In A Simulation

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,780
According to the proof given by Kurt Gödel regarding his incompleteness theorem, there are some truths that are impossible to prove. And nevertheless they remain true. I believe that the same applies for the opposite. There might be some falsehoods that are impossible to prove they're false. This "Simulation" conjecture might be one of them.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
According to the proof given by Kurt Gödel regarding his incompleteness theorem, there are some truths that are impossible to prove. And nevertheless they remain true. I believe that the same applies for the opposite. There might be some falsehoods that are impossible to prove they're false. This "Simulation" conjecture might be one of them.
True, IMO the "Simulation" hypothesis (a late-night pub discussion) ≅ proof of GOD (the idea of a creator or creators late-night pub discussion) from reading Buzzfeed style pop sci articles.

The original paper.
https://simulation-argument.com/simulation.pdf
This paper argues that at least one of the following propositions is true: (1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a “posthuman” stage; (2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof); (3) we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation. It follows that the belief that there is a significant chance that we will one day become posthumans who run ancestor‐simulations is false, unless we are currently living in a simulation. A number of other consequences of this result are also discussed
VII. CONCLUSION
A technologically mature “posthuman” civilization would have enormous
computing power. Based on this empirical fact, the simulation argument shows
that at least one of the following propositions is true: (1) The fraction of human‐
level civilizations that reach a posthuman stage is very close to zero; (2) The
fraction of posthuman civilizations that are interested in running ancestor‐
simulations is very close to zero; (3) The fraction of all people with our kind of
experiences that are living in a simulation is very close to one.
If (1) is true, then we will almost certainly go extinct before reaching
posthumanity. If (2) is true, then there must be a strong convergence among the
courses of advanced civilizations so that virtually none contains any relatively
wealthy individuals who desire to run ancestor‐simulations and are free to do so.
If (3) is true, then we almost certainly live in a simulation. In the dark forest of
our current ignorance, it seems sensible to apportion one’s credence roughly
evenly between (1), (2), and (3).
Unless we are now living in a simulation, our descendants will almost
certainly never run an ancestor‐simulation.
  • Civilizations never reach the stage where they can build such an advanced computer.
  • If there are civilizations capable of making such a computer, they aren’t particularly interested in such simulations.
  • We’re probably all living in a simulation.


(3) is IMO absolutely the most implausible.
 
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Thread Starter

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
13,711
A problem with the proposed experiments is that the proposers and experimenters could themselves be the results of a simulation; or not. So how could the experimental results be conclusive?
Well for one you have to read the article, it's not that long.
It's probably just another step to show that it might be even more probable that we are living in a simulation, or that we aren't.
 

Thread Starter

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
13,711
According to the proof given by Kurt Gödel regarding his incompleteness theorem, there are some truths that are impossible to prove. And nevertheless they remain true. I believe that the same applies for the opposite. There might be some falsehoods that are impossible to prove they're false. This "Simulation" conjecture might be one of them.
Yeah, I guess we just have to wait and see. I might read it again myself to get a clearer picture.
As I mentioned, there are assumptions too that may not be true because they are still based on OUR experience not THEREs if they exist.
 
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