Are all 0-10V driver capable of sourcing current or can source and sink both

Discussion in 'Analog & Mixed-Signal Design' started by techsavvy2, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. techsavvy2

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 9, 2018
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    Hi all,
    There are various LED drivers exist from multiple manufacturer.
    There are two types of 0-10V source and sink.
    1. My question is there a mandatory that all driver should capable of at least source. or driver should have source and sink capability.
    2. Is there are any condition that driver having only sink capability.

    Thanks
     
  2. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
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    No.
    Whether they are source or sink is arbitrary and depends upon the application.
    If the load is connected to the supply voltage and you want a low-side driver.
     
  3. techsavvy2

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 9, 2018
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    Thanks.
    Actually we have controller which controls LED dimming through LED driver (either 0-10V based or DALI based) . Now I want to automatically detect the driver type. i.e. it is DALI based driver or 0-10V based driver and based on detection controller switch to dimming type . If it detects that LED driver is DALI based then controller provide the DALI based dimming to LED driver . And if controller detects that LED driver is 0-10V then it provide the 0-10V dimming output voltage.

    Thanks
     
  4. Sensacell

    Moderator

    Jun 19, 2012
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    Why not just output both DALI and 0-10V all the time?
     
  5. techsavvy2

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 9, 2018
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    Hi,
    As there is only 2 wire interface between controller and LED driver so any one of the two interface can be at a time.
    So we need to detect the driver type. if driver is 0-10V then controller will provide 0-10 dimming control to LED driver . And if DALI is detected then controller will provide dimming control to LED driver through DALI interface.

    GG
     
  6. techsavvy2

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 9, 2018
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    Any reply on above thing..
     
  7. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
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    I don't see how you can do that just by looking at an input connection.

    You could make two different output connections with different connectors or use different pins on the same connector for each type of driver.
    The driver would then have a matching connector or pinout for the type of driver it is.
     
  8. danadak

    Well-Known Member

    Mar 10, 2018
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    One can imagine code that looks for DALI protocol on the line, timing,
    logic levels vs an analog level. Maybe a combo of using filter as well, seems
    like analog signal would be a very low freq kind of signal, essentially a DC
    control (unless music fed), ulike a DALI spectrum.....

    Regards, Dana.
     
  9. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
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    Do you supply the driver or is that supplied by the user?
     
  10. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
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    MY understanding is that he needs to know the type of output driver so he can generate the proper signal type, not detect a signal that's already there.
     
  11. danadak

    Well-Known Member

    Mar 10, 2018
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    No, he wants to detect whats on a 2 wire interface. Analog or DALI.

    Regards, Dana.
     
  12. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
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    Interesting how we interpret the same information oppositely. :rolleyes:

    From the quote below it would seem he needs to detect the LED driver type the controller is being connected to, not the signal type from the controller, which he is providing.

    But I guess he'll have to clarify that.
     
  13. ebeowulf17

    Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2014
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    I'm often surprised how many cryptic questions are asked here, with vague or self-contradicting requirements.

    In this case my interpretation matches yours, but it feels uncertain. The thread starter really needs to clarify.
     
  14. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
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    I think that mostly comes from people who have little technical background.
    Those with technical knowledge/training (formal or self-learned) usually understand exactly what information is needed to answer a technical question while avoiding excess wordage, and contradictory, unnecessary, or misleading information.
     
    ebeowulf17 likes this.
  15. danadak

    Well-Known Member

    Mar 10, 2018
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    Yes, as I understand it there is a driver supplying either analog or DALI to the
    2 wire interface, and he wants to "tap" into that and share the buss. So he has
    to detect what the buss is being driven by. But then that begs the question, how
    is he going to take over an analog buss if thats what is driving the buss.....

    But you are correct, one can see this multiple ways.

    Will the TS please stand up and answer this....:)

    Regards, Dana.
     
  16. techsavvy2

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 9, 2018
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    0
    Hi all,
    Thanks for your reply.
    I just wanted to detect the driver type . I mean to detect if it is DALI based or 0-10V based . So detection of type of signal on 2 wire (of-corse which are connected to driver only) or detection of driver type is same thing.
    See we have only 2 line and in case of 0-10V it is polarised (+ve and -ve) and in case of DALI it is digital signal with different voltage level with compare to 0-10V.
    .

    So First thing is detection of signal type/driver type (Either 0-10V or DALI)
    So correct mechanism is needed to detect the signal type.
    Based on detection controller will provide that signal on 2 wire (to driver).

    Thanks
     
  17. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
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    No it's absolutely not the same thing.
    That's where we are confused.
    How can there be a signal to detect if you need to know the driver type before the controller can generate the signal (that you intend to detect).
    That's a total paradox.
    There's no signal to detect unless you have a time machine. :rolleyes:
     
  18. danadak

    Well-Known Member

    Mar 10, 2018
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    So you want to know if a connected string wants to be driven by DALI or
    analog signal ? That means no "other" driver is attached to buss you are
    trying to identify, correct ?

    So that implies how is the receive side of LED strip implemented ? Could
    it be identified by leakage or impedance because the receive interface is
    implemented differently.

    Do you have control over architecture of receive side ? If so one could imagine
    driving it with a DALI test signal and looking for a response. No response its
    an analog buss.......

    Regards, Dana.
     
  19. BobTPH

    Senior Member

    Jun 5, 2013
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    Basically, the only thing you can detect about an input is its impedance. If there are only two known possibilties, you might connect a votage that is legal on either interface and determine the current that flows. If sufficiently distinct, this might work. But, if you expect to take any random driver and determine which type it is, I think you are out of luck.

    Bob
     
  20. dendad

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 20, 2016
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    One moral from this story is to ALWAYS run more wire that you need.
    The wire is pretty cheap, but the labor to put it in is costly.
     
    ebeowulf17 likes this.
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