A little help for a simple mosfet H-bridge problem

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
Motors and other components like diodes, etc,... are available locally and they are very cheap. Microcontrollers I buy directly from microchipDirect.com.

It is not a simulation I posted. it is a simulation video.

You need Proteus 6.6.3 to view and simulate my Proteus design. If you have non demo version of Proteus 8.6.3 then I will post the Proteus Simulation file.

Which country are you from.

I also buy from SparkFun, mikroE and other websites.
From Canada, thank you for the info,
What I meant was how do you find out about the new and better components, I use Mouser to order semi's but it's usually the basic and usual stuff(mosfets, bjt's, logic gates...) I have a local store that offers a lot of components like op amps, 555, non logic level mosfets, diodes, etc...
I have the demo of Proteus 8.6.
 

jayanthd

Joined Jul 4, 2015
904
2 momentary toogle switches, sorry about that
Ok. Two tack switches and one POT for speed control. I will draw the schematic and simulation files now.

Is it ok if I use IRFP064N N-Channel Mosfets ?

How many motors do you have ? Do you need two H-Bridges for two motors ?

I also buy from mouser.in.

There are a lot of local and local online sellers. They stock all kinds of devices.

You will not be able to simulate my Proteus designs with demo version.


.
 
Last edited:

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
Ok. Two tack switches and one POT for speed control. I will draw the schematic and simulation files now.

Is it ok if I use IRFP064N N-Channel Mosfets ?

How many motors do you have ? Do you need two H-Bridges for two motors ?

I also buy from mouser.in.

There are a lot of local and local online sellers. They stock all kinds of devices.

You will not be able to simulate my Proteus designs with demo version.


.
It is fine, but the IRFP064N isn't a logic level.
I have 2 motors, yea two h bridges for two motors, also to be able to control direction.
 

jayanthd

Joined Jul 4, 2015
904
It is fine, but the IRFP064N isn't a logic level.
I have 2 motors, yea two h bridges for two motors, also to be able to control direction.
No need for logic level mosfets. The IR21xx devices need 12V for operation and as you are using 12V power supply for 12V motors, the same power supply will power them.

I will try to make a simulation tonight for two H-Bridges but this time I will use PIC18F46K22.

Only N-Channel Mosfets will be used.

Also I have to see how to implement direction change for both H-Bridges using PIC18F.
 

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
No need for logic level mosfets. The IR21xx devices need 12V for operation and as you are using 12V power supply for 12V motors, the same power supply will power them.

I will try to make a simulation tonight for two H-Bridges but this time I will use PIC18F46K22.

Only N-Channel Mosfets will be used.

Also I have to see how to implement direction change for both H-Bridges using PIC18F.
Ok, that is good
 

jayanthd

Joined Jul 4, 2015
904
Ok, that is good
See the simulation video of a RF Wireless Remote which I made to control relays. I can also make remotes with nRF24L01/+.

See the video of RF communication project which I made today.

http://www84.zippyshare.com/v/svWLbR9z/file.html

In the simulation you can see that transreceiver 1 sends relay port data to transreceiver 2 and according to it relays are controlled and then transreceiver reads the relay port and then sends the status to transreceiver 1 and it then shows the relay status on leds. I still have to implement eeprom thing so that the devices remembers previous port status after a power restore.


In a similar way in your project the remote control switch(s) and POT (pwm duty) values are sent to transreceiver 2 and it will control the H-Bridges.
 
Last edited:

phranzdan

Joined Aug 4, 2017
40
I am new to electronics and this is my first post

Situation:
I would like to build my first robot as a summer project. Nearly all the mechanical part is complete(waiting for a piece) and now I'm turning my focus to the electrical side. I'm using Proteus 8.6 Demo. to draw the circuit and simulate.

Information:
-My inputs are coming from a RF receiver with a PT2262 decoder, with the module I have, I'm unable to send ore then two signals and no PWM.
-The motors are 12V brushed gear motors, each of them have a stall current of 2.19A.
-My power supply is a 12V 5.5A lead acid battery.


Problem:
When one input goes high, the opposite mosfets get really hot and eventually die out. I know it may seem like a silly problem but I cant seem to find the cause of it

Questions:
Can someone please explain to me what might be happening and why?
If there are any improvements or a way to "fix' the circuit that you might recommend?
Is there a way to calculate the pull-up/down resistors and filter capacitor, for a further time?

I am unable to get any other parts for this project, I do have a backup 2A L298N dual h-bridge motor driver module, just in case.
All help is appreciated!


 

phranzdan

Joined Aug 4, 2017
40
Hi: Some things to consider in the application of any mosfets is the power dissipation. The power dissipated in the device for a "D.C." application is Id x Vds. Under normal bias conditions for the mosfets you are using, they will be fully switched on with 10 volts Vgs. If in doubt, go to alldata and find the data sheet for the device you are using. Look at for the conditions under which Rdson measurement is measured. The gate voltage given will fully switch the device on. I checked and both of the device yo are using are 10 volt gate. With the device fully switched on, the power in the device will be and equal to Ids x Vds as before. Since Vdson is low, the dissipation will be low. If on the other hand, the gate is biased at say 5 volts, the device will not be fully switched on and the dissipation could be very high. Make certain both of the conducting device have approximately 10 volt gate source during conduction. If you are driving the bridge from a 5 volt source, you would need to find a set of logic level devices which will operate at 5 volts to replace those you are currently using. The other thing to be aware of is that power mos have a body diode which can conduct if the polarity of the drain source supply is reversed. This could cause high dissipation in the device as well.
 

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
Hi: Some things to consider in the application of any mosfets is the power dissipation. The power dissipated in the device for a "D.C." application is Id x Vds. Under normal bias conditions for the mosfets you are using, they will be fully switched on with 10 volts Vgs. If in doubt, go to alldata and find the data sheet for the device you are using. Look at for the conditions under which Rdson measurement is measured. The gate voltage given will fully switch the device on. I checked and both of the device yo are using are 10 volt gate. With the device fully switched on, the power in the device will be and equal to Ids x Vds as before. Since Vdson is low, the dissipation will be low. If on the other hand, the gate is biased at say 5 volts, the device will not be fully switched on and the dissipation could be very high. Make certain both of the conducting device have approximately 10 volt gate source during conduction. If you are driving the bridge from a 5 volt source, you would need to find a set of logic level devices which will operate at 5 volts to replace those you are currently using. The other thing to be aware of is that power mos have a body diode which can conduct if the polarity of the drain source supply is reversed. This could cause high dissipation in the device as well.
Thank you for your reply, I wil, consider the power dissipation. In my first post, I was using an IRL520 which turns fully on at 5 volts, ttl level.
 

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
See the simulation video of a RF Wireless Remote which I made to control relays. I can also make remotes with nRF24L01/+.

See the video of RF communication project which I made today.

http://www84.zippyshare.com/v/svWLbR9z/file.html

In the simulation you can see that transreceiver 1 sends relay port data to transreceiver 2 and according to it relays are controlled and then transreceiver reads the relay port and then sends the status to transreceiver 1 and it then shows the relay status on leds. I still have to implement eeprom thing so that the devices remembers previous port status after a power restore.


In a similar way in your project the remote control switch(s) and POT (pwm duty) values are sent to transreceiver 2 and it will control the H-Bridges.
I wil, take a look at it, things keep popping up during the day which gives little time to finish my project.
Sorry in advance for any further delays.
 

jayanthd

Joined Jul 4, 2015
904
I wil, take a look at it, things keep popping up during the day which gives little time to finish my project.
Sorry in advance for any further delays.
I thought about the RF remote for your application and for ease of use you need 4 tact switches and one POT.

Switch 1 - ON/OFF Robot
Switch 2 - Fwd/Rev direction control
Switch 3 - Left Motor ON/OFF (if you want to turn robot the you have to stop 1 motor)
Switch 4 - Right Motor ON/OFF (if you want to turn robot the you have to stop 1 motor)

POT - Set Motor(s) speed

and you need 4x Leds or a Lcd. (Leds will be better, If Lcd is used on the remote control then it can be used to display Robot speed, direction, etc,...)

PWM duty has to converted to speed and displayed on Remote control's Lcd.

Decide and tell if you can use 4x buttons and one POT. Also tell if you want 4x Leds or Lcd for status display.

After your reply, today I will complete the circuit designing od Remote Control and write C Code.

Tomorrow I will work on Robot's circuit and C Code.



I have decided to use PIC16F876A (which has ADC) for Remote Control. If you are using 5V type RF modules then this will be fine. If you have idea of using any 3.3V powered RF modules then 3.7V Li-Po battery can be used for the Remote control and then I can use a PIC16LF876A (3.3V device) for Remote Control. For Robot I will use PIC18F46K22 because it has 3x ECCP modules.

What battery are you using ? Gel batteries (12V 7A) ? If you plan to fix battery to Robot then are you sure Robot will be able to drive that load ?

Max PWM duty for full speed and for stalling motors has to be found (0-100% will not work as you have geared motors (they have low RPM but require higher duty PWM)).


Decide and tell which RF module you will use. PT222x cannot be used because it cannot transmit PWM duty value.

5V type

http://www.amazon.in/Adraxx-433Mhz-...scsubtag=ba93748e-4be1-46af-815c-3db29ef04299

http://www.ebay.in/itm/182688099050?aff_source=Sok-Goog

http://www.ebay.in/itm/172770379043?aff_source=Sok-Goog

3.3V type (can be used for battery operated remote control)

http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Mini...MHz-Wireless-Link-Kit-for-Arduino-361220.html

http://www.mouser.com/Embedded-Solu...odules/_/N-6sri4/?P=1z0wtphZ1z0vpzk&pop=2ztba

I will be waiting for your response.
 
Last edited:

jayanthd

Joined Jul 4, 2015
904
433 MHz RF Remote Control project's Proteus Simulation video. Relay port status saving is implemented.

working:

if relay board resets (power failure and restore) then it gets the port status from eeprom and then sends it to remote control device and then the remote control device will update the led status.

If remote control resets then it requests relay port status from relay board (controlled device) and then sets the relay port status on leds.

http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/pUD6YiAy/file.html

A similar remote with POT for pwm duty has to be made for your project. If you reply to my previous post then I will complete the remote control part today.

You can also use XBee in your project. In XBee you can configure the adresses of the pair which has to communicate. XBee works from 3.3V and if you plan to use XBee whixh has a longer range then I can use a PIC18LF14K22 (3.3V device) to make the remote control. This will then work with a Li-Po battery (3.7v).

And there is LoRa from Microchip. Also check it.
 

jayanthd

Joined Jul 4, 2015
904
Simple H-Bridge circuit which I made. Have to test it on hardware yet.

Can you do the testing ?

http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/ymjSd0fc/file.html

Simulation working.

http://www13.zippyshare.com/v/ZVfZqF0O/file.html


Only one PWM is needed. No need for FET drivers. Saves cost. You have to use L293D to drive the H-Bridges. 1x L293D will drive 2x H-Bridges.

Please provide more details like what rating motor you want to use like 12V, 24V, 48V ?

Also provide details of max motor current like 20A, 80A.


If you provide all the details I have asked in my previous 3 posts then I will complete the project today itself. Please L293D as I have designed with Mosfets. Mosfets I will select. I will search for the best mosfets with very low Rds(on).



You can use this N-Channel Mosfet.

http://uk.farnell.com/infineon/irfp7530pbf/mosfet-n-ch-60v-195a-to-247-3/dp/2406520

I will look for low Rds(on) P-Channel Mosfet.
 
Last edited:

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
I thought about the RF remote for your application and for ease of use you need 4 tact switches and one POT.

Switch 1 - ON/OFF Robot
Switch 2 - Fwd/Rev direction control
Switch 3 - Left Motor ON/OFF (if you want to turn robot the you have to stop 1 motor)
Switch 4 - Right Motor ON/OFF (if you want to turn robot the you have to stop 1 motor)

POT - Set Motor(s) speed

and you need 4x Leds or a Lcd. (Leds will be better, If Lcd is used on the remote control then it can be used to display Robot speed, direction, etc,...)

PWM duty has to converted to speed and displayed on Remote control's Lcd.

Decide and tell if you can use 4x buttons and one POT. Also tell if you want 4x Leds or Lcd for status display.

After your reply, today I will complete the circuit designing od Remote Control and write C Code.

Tomorrow I will work on Robot's circuit and C Code.



I have decided to use PIC16F876A (which has ADC) for Remote Control. If you are using 5V type RF modules then this will be fine. If you have idea of using any 3.3V powered RF modules then 3.7V Li-Po battery can be used for the Remote control and then I can use a PIC16LF876A (3.3V device) for Remote Control. For Robot I will use PIC18F46K22 because it has 3x ECCP modules.

What battery are you using ? Gel batteries (12V 7A) ? If you plan to fix battery to Robot then are you sure Robot will be able to drive that load ?

Max PWM duty for full speed and for stalling motors has to be found (0-100% will not work as you have geared motors (they have low RPM but require higher duty PWM)).


Decide and tell which RF module you will use. PT222x cannot be used because it cannot transmit PWM duty value.

5V type

http://www.amazon.in/Adraxx-433Mhz-...scsubtag=ba93748e-4be1-46af-815c-3db29ef04299

http://www.ebay.in/itm/182688099050?aff_source=Sok-Goog

http://www.ebay.in/itm/172770379043?aff_source=Sok-Goog

3.3V type (can be used for battery operated remote control)

http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Mini...MHz-Wireless-Link-Kit-for-Arduino-361220.html

http://www.mouser.com/Embedded-Solu...odules/_/N-6sri4/?P=1z0wtphZ1z0vpzk&pop=2ztba

I will be waiting for your response.
The
I thought about the RF remote for your application and for ease of use you need 4 tact switches and one POT.

Switch 1 - ON/OFF Robot
Switch 2 - Fwd/Rev direction control
Switch 3 - Left Motor ON/OFF (if you want to turn robot the you have to stop 1 motor)
Switch 4 - Right Motor ON/OFF (if you want to turn robot the you have to stop 1 motor)

POT - Set Motor(s) speed

and you need 4x Leds or a Lcd. (Leds will be better, If Lcd is used on the remote control then it can be used to display Robot speed, direction, etc,...)

PWM duty has to converted to speed and displayed on Remote control's Lcd.

Decide and tell if you can use 4x buttons and one POT. Also tell if you want 4x Leds or Lcd for status display.

After your reply, today I will complete the circuit designing od Remote Control and write C Code.

Tomorrow I will work on Robot's circuit and C Code.



I have decided to use PIC16F876A (which has ADC) for Remote Control. If you are using 5V type RF modules then this will be fine. If you have idea of using any 3.3V powered RF modules then 3.7V Li-Po battery can be used for the Remote control and then I can use a PIC16LF876A (3.3V device) for Remote Control. For Robot I will use PIC18F46K22 because it has 3x ECCP modules.

What battery are you using ? Gel batteries (12V 7A) ? If you plan to fix battery to Robot then are you sure Robot will be able to drive that load ?

Max PWM duty for full speed and for stalling motors has to be found (0-100% will not work as you have geared motors (they have low RPM but require higher duty PWM)).


Decide and tell which RF module you will use. PT222x cannot be used because it cannot transmit PWM duty value.

5V type

http://www.amazon.in/Adraxx-433Mhz-...scsubtag=ba93748e-4be1-46af-815c-3db29ef04299

http://www.ebay.in/itm/182688099050?aff_source=Sok-Goog

http://www.ebay.in/itm/172770379043?aff_source=Sok-Goog

3.3V type (can be used for battery operated remote control)

http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Mini...MHz-Wireless-Link-Kit-for-Arduino-361220.html

http://www.mouser.com/Embedded-Solu...odules/_/N-6sri4/?P=1z0wtphZ1z0vpzk&pop=2ztba

I will be waiting for your response.
the remote setup looks good!
ill be using a sealed lead acid battery of 7A, the motors are rated to be 7kg-cm torque and 42kg stall torque, if the ratings are right they should have no problem bring 2kg(battery) plus another 2-5kg from the robot itself.
probably a 3.3v type, and from a secure site and not from ebay.
 

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
433 MHz RF Remote Control project's Proteus Simulation video. Relay port status saving is implemented.

working:

if relay board resets (power failure and restore) then it gets the port status from eeprom and then sends it to remote control device and then the remote control device will update the led status.

If remote control resets then it requests relay port status from relay board (controlled device) and then sets the relay port status on leds.

http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/pUD6YiAy/file.html

A similar remote with POT for pwm duty has to be made for your project. If you reply to my previous post then I will complete the remote control part today.

You can also use XBee in your project. In XBee you can configure the adresses of the pair which has to communicate. XBee works from 3.3V and if you plan to use XBee whixh has a longer range then I can use a PIC18LF14K22 (3.3V device) to make the remote control. This will then work with a Li-Po battery (3.7v).

And there is LoRa from Microchip. Also check it.
I've heard about Xbee before, but now ill take a closer look
And also I was unable to open the simulation from the previous post, what format did you put it on so I can view it?
im on a windows 8
 

Thread Starter

Optipook1

Joined Jul 25, 2017
63
Simple H-Bridge circuit which I made. Have to test it on hardware yet.

Can you do the testing ?

http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/ymjSd0fc/file.html

Simulation working.

http://www13.zippyshare.com/v/ZVfZqF0O/file.html


Only one PWM is needed. No need for FET drivers. Saves cost. You have to use L293D to drive the H-Bridges. 1x L293D will drive 2x H-Bridges.

Please provide more details like what rating motor you want to use like 12V, 24V, 48V ?

Also provide details of max motor current like 20A, 80A.


If you provide all the details I have asked in my previous 3 posts then I will complete the project today itself. Please L293D as I have designed with Mosfets. Mosfets I will select. I will search for the best mosfets with very low Rds(on).



You can use this N-Channel Mosfet.

http://uk.farnell.com/infineon/irfp7530pbf/mosfet-n-ch-60v-195a-to-247-3/dp/2406520

I will look for low Rds(on) P-Channel Mosfet.
that's fine, I have a l298d ic.
the voltage is 12v.
the motor current for each motor is 2.19 stall, but since it is possible to add motors in parallel, so 5A for each H-Bridge, about a max of 20A(don't want any heating because of the current)
Did I miss any details?
 

jayanthd

Joined Jul 4, 2015
904
t
And also I was unable to open the simulation from the previous post, what format did you put it on so I can view it?
The files I posted are .avi video files which playes in VLC Player. I have zipped them using winrar. Use winrar or winzip to extract it and then play it in player.

The details you have provided is ok. I will complete the project today.

Proteus simulations attached. Extract them using winrar or winzip.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

jbike

Joined Feb 2, 2016
6
I think the problem is shoot through. Likely, you enable the right FETs of the H Bridge, which you can do with 2 direction inputs. However, you also need an enable FET. This is because without waiting a bit before applying power to the the H Bridge FETs, the wrong FETs can be activated during the switch change. Look into the TLE 5205-2, a 5 amp H bridge that won't switch until it is safe to do so. It still has an enable, but you can continuously enable it without fear of destroying itself. I used one in a recent project, and it worked at quite high speed with no need to switch the enable pin. See datasheet:https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infin...n.pdf?fileId=db3a30431f848401011fc747c7a0797f
 
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