50-200kV high pulse generator?

Thread Starter

Glomero

Joined Jun 17, 2020
2
Hey there, I apologize if this is in the wrong place but I don't really know what threads to pull to get to the right answer. I'm naive to electrical engineering but I'm trying to put together a 50-200kV high pulse generator that can create a pulse for around 10 nanoseconds. I've read that introducing this pulse to the mycelium of mushrooms such as shiitake can double yields. I've found these on Amazon, but I'm unaware if they are correct for this application. I don't know how to do it right and I definitely don't know how to do it wrong.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D55R1N6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATCVC199CHVK0&psc=1

Can anyone tell me if these high voltage transformers could be used for this application? Could the pulse be controlled to 10 nanoseconds? If they can be, what else would I need to get to that to happen? I'm aware that these are dangerous numbers and I don't intend to take any of it lightly. I have friends who are more savvy with electrical engineering and have the tools and know-how to be able to safely put it together but I'd need to dig around a little to get an idea on what I'd need to get first.

I hope this makes sense. I've attached a screenshot of the excerpt that I found the information. It lists a part from Yamabishi Electric Company but I can't find any mention of it online.
 

Attachments

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
775
This has been mentioned several times over the last 30 years or so, that excerpt looks quite old. There was an article in National Geographic in April 2010 edition, so I thought this might be an April Fools joke, but I found this research paper and this one, both from 2018 amongst others, on Google Scholar.

I know nothing about mushrooms or growing them (other than I like eating them) but that pulse transformer could certainly be used to generate a 'lightening-like' pulse. A circuit based on 2 NE555 timer chips - the first to generate a train of pulses, which triggers the second NE555 to generate a very short pulse of 5v over a few tens of nS in the transformer primary - would be very easy to make. From a cursory glance at the papers the width of the pulse and its height define the energy transferred and so you'll need to adjust the voltage to the coil as well as its duration, but having it as short as 10nS isn't critical (and would be hard with that transformer).
 
Last edited:

andrewmm

Joined Feb 25, 2011
369
That would have to be a VEYR big mushroom already I think.

200 Kv, needs an air gap greater than 200mm, me thinks the mushroom might fry at 200Kv.
 

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
775
They reckon that transformer manages an arc of a couple of cm. I've not done the math to check it though. The energy is only a few tens of Watts, its not really a lightning strike (that's potentially GigaWatts I believe). I doubt it'll fry anything!
 

Thread Starter

Glomero

Joined Jun 17, 2020
2
That would have to be a VEYR big mushroom already I think.

200 Kv, needs an air gap greater than 200mm, me thinks the mushroom might fry at 200Kv.
The mushroom fruit body actually grows out of the mycelium. You can sort of think of the mycelium as the "roots" of the mushroom "plant", but it's more of a solid mass. The mycelium block is what would be shocked before it started fruiting, and would definitely be over 200mm wide.

The mycelium is actually the life form, the mushroom is just its reproductive organ so it can disperse it's genetics.

Can anyone tell me if the transformer I linked to is suitable? I apologize for being so naive, electricity is something I've never gotten a grasp of. What my layman's brain thinks is that I can wire the transformer to another device that regulates its pulse to 10 nanoseconds? I wouldn't be the one wiring this device together either, I have a friend who is savvy with circuit boards and soldering but he didn't feel confident in helping me figure this out. Can someone clear up what's wrong with my assumption?

It's often very difficult to jump into the complexity when you don't know where to start asking questions. I just want to keep saying sorry, help me sorry. Thanks for the input


EDIT: Thanks Irving, just noticed your first post. I found this in the second link: "The accumulated yield of L. edodes for four cultivation seasons is improved from 160 to 320 g by applying high voltage of 50 or 100 kV. However, the yield decreases from 320 to 240 g upon increasing applied voltage from 100 to 130 kV." I've read reports from a well known mushroom cultivator who said he had applied a 50 kV jolt to his mycelium (not sure for what duration) and said he didn't see any noticeable results. Could the 200 kV transformers be limited to 100 kV, or could there even be a regulator to easily adjust it, or is this not how they work? I'm aware of power regulators that can control how fast an electric fan turns, but is this using different fundamentals with a transformer?
 
Last edited:

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
775
Yes, you can control the energy out of the transformer by controlling the current and/or voltage on the primary circuit. Don't worry about the pulsewidth, you won't get down to 10nS with anything you can easily buy but it doesn't matter, what seems to be important is the energy transferred which is a function of both voltage and time. So the statement "by applying high voltage of 50 or 100 kV " is meaningless without the timing info, was it one pulse or several pulses?, how many/how often/how wide? Some experimentation needed... Making a circuit that controls the energy into the transformer isn't hard.

Suggest you go onto Google Scholar, find & read other research papers and see if you can tease out the timing info...
 

andrewmm

Joined Feb 25, 2011
369
There are two obvious ways to make a high voltage,
using induction or capacitance.

have a look in your car,

if it has spark plugs , then thats a high voltage generator your after.

They used to by a coil ( inductor ) and are now mainly capacitive,

The reason your friend might be reluctant, is that these things can be lethal,

If its just for fun, I'd strongly suggest that you just use an old car ignition system,
which takes 12 V and makes many Kv.

https://www.newkidscar.com/how-a-car-works/how-ignition-system-works/

Take lesson also from cars, the sort of cables you need for that sort of voltage.
 
Top