Hello ...

I bought an air purifier from amazon. This device mainly consists simply of a fan, few filters, and UV bulb.
I am outside of USA, and this device is mainly for US market, US power is known to be 110v @ 60 Hz and this is what written in device catalogue.
So now my question is about the frequency, I know there is a lot of well-experienced guys on here.
Power here in Kuwait is 220-240 V @ 50 Hz, so I know voltage conversion is a must to step down the 220 to 110, but in this case it will step down 220v @ 50 Hz to 110v @ 50 Hz also, and the requirements is 60 Hz.
So what do you think about this difference in 10 Hz? is it okay for a fan motor?
what do you think the air purifier have fan motor type?

And in the long time running?
The performance? ...etc.

Thanks in advance .

 

Frequency will have no real effect at all. The only real requirement for you is the voltage conversion

Update: Forget that, you have a motor which may be problematic. AC motors are usually dependent on main frequency for their speed and thus a slower or faster main frequency will result in a slower / faster fan speed. But, those motors are usually designed to saturate within certain times and thus your motor could potentially over / under load. if you are going from 60Hz to 50Hz then you may have problems but if you use a 50Hz motor on a 60Hz line I think it wont be as bad since you know for a fact that the coils in the motor will never fully saturate.

 

And the UV bulb will probably use an inductive ballast and using a lower frequency than intended will result in increased current through the bulb which it may not like.

 

Let me sum that up:

A magnetic circuit needs more iron to avoid magnetic core saturation at lower frequencies. When the magnetic circuit saturates, it no longer acts like an inductor, more like a partial short during the voltage peaks of the power line. If your motor is an old, simple design with nothing but iron and copper, 50Hz will tend to overheat it.

A magnetic circuit needs more iron to avoid saturating at lower frequencies. If your UV bulb uses a ballast to limit its current, the ballast is in danger of overheating and the bulb is in danger of having too much current.

There are ways around this in the design stage, but your machine does not have those advantages. You can measure to see if the machine is going to run too hot, or you can do the (most inconvenient) process of converting 50Hz to 60Hz, or you might do something to turn the voltage down to about 92 volts...which might work and it might not.

You have a bad situation and it is usually difficult to get out of.

 

In my experience you most likely will get away with it, the fan will run slower, however.
Using N.A. equip and UK (50hz) back and forth I have really had no problem.
Max.

 

In my experience you most likely will get away with it, the fan will run slower, however.
Max.

If, "lucky" works, go for it.

 

Thank you guys for your helpful replies.

Please note that the device is an air purifier, this means it would work 24/7!

I saw some converters on amazon, even frequency + voltage, but I have doubts if it is designed to work much (continuously for days maybe)?

I also read some opinions somewhere about converting the 220v AC to 12v DC (Car battery charger for example), and re convert this 12 by an inverter to a pure sine wave 110v @ 60 Hz, but to be honest I don't know if this is practical also.

or you can do the (most inconvenient) process of converting 50Hz to 60Hz

Why in your opinion it is most inconvenient?

You have a bad situation and it is usually difficult to get out of.

There is always a way my friend

 

Converting 50 Hz. power to 60 Hz. power cannot be easily done electronically. What I would do is convert the AC to DC, then use the DC power to make a pure sinewave inverter at the new frequency. Depending on your requirements it might only cost a few thousand dollars.

Do you have the chops to design and build a pure sinewave inverter?

 

@hesham1216 Personally I believe you are over thinking it, why not try it and see if any significant difference.'
Max.

 

Converting 50 Hz. power to 60 Hz. power cannot be easily done electronically. What I would do is convert the AC to DC, then use the DC power to make a pure sinewave inverter at the new frequency. Depending on your requirements it might only cost a few thousand dollars.

Do you have the chops to design and build a pure sinewave inverter?

I found something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/LiteFuze-Tra...495919991&sr=8-1&keywords=frequency+converter

And, regarding the design, to be honest I am not an electronics engineer to design a circuit from the scratch, but if there is a design that is tested and working, I have no problem to build it.

@hesham1216 Personally I believe you are over thinking it, why not try it and see if any significant difference.'
Max.

I will tell you why Max.
Because I am sending this device to another country, and to people who have no idea about electricity or anything, moreover it will work for a baby room, and you know in this case safety, efficiency is a great concern
But I am telling you, I will buy the transformer and I will try of course for some time, but I have limited time to test before sending te device, and I need to have more solutions for any problems that may occur in future you know..

 

Because I am sending this device to another country,

That opens new possibilities, like buying a machine designed to use the power provided where it's going, 230V 50Hz.
That gets you off the hook for reliability and safety. No need to make dead babies when the cure is so simple.

 

I found something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/LiteFuze-Tra...495919991&sr=8-1&keywords=frequency+converter
...

I'd be willing to bet the frequency of the output is identical to the frequency of the input. For some devices it just doesn't matter: like for shavers, clippers, and trimmers.

 

I'd be willing to bet the frequency of the output is identical to the frequency of the input. For some devices it just doesn't matter: like for shavers, clippers, and trimmers.

It does say "It is perfect for clippers and shavers so that they do not make loud noise, like they do when using with other type of voltage converters without the Hz conversion."

 

It does say "It is perfect for clippers and shavers so that they do not make loud noise, like they do when using with other type of voltage converters without the Hz conversion."

Does that imply to you that they have developed a frequency conversion circuit? If so what might be the methodology that they use for frequency conversion of a power signal? Would you expect the output to be a sinewave or a modified sinewave?

Excuse me for livin', but there is a considerable imprecision in language in all of this and I want to make sure people understand what we are dealing with here.

 

Let me sum that up:

A magnetic circuit needs more iron to avoid magnetic core saturation at lower frequencies. When the magnetic circuit saturates, it no longer acts like an inductor, more like a partial short during the voltage peaks of the power line. If your motor is an old, simple design with nothing but iron and copper, 50Hz will tend to overheat it.

A magnetic circuit needs more iron to avoid saturating at lower frequencies. If your UV bulb uses a ballast to limit its current, the ballast is in danger of overheating and the bulb is in danger of having too much current.

There are ways around this in the design stage, but your machine does not have those advantages. You can measure to see if the machine is going to run too hot, or you can do the (most inconvenient) process of converting 50Hz to 60Hz, or you might do something to turn the voltage down to about 92 volts...which might work and it might not.

You have a bad situation and it is usually difficult to get out of.

Reminds me of the guy near me who runs a small theme park with corny rides. he bought the ferris wheel that elvis rode in a famous movie and imported it into australia. http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMBYN7_Elvis_Ferris_Wheel_from_Roustabout
he then had to spend what he described as four times as much as he paid for it (all up including its importation) converting it to run on 240v and 50 cps

 

That opens new possibilities, like buying a machine designed to use the power provided where it's going, 230V 50Hz.
That gets you off the hook for reliability and safety. No need to make dead babies when the cure is so simple.

I really wish it was easy, I wish more than you ...
I mean if here in the middle east they make such effective devices with the newest technologies, I would, of course, buy it from the local market!!

The cure is simple, yes, but maybe with some other ideas.

Regarding the frequency converter from amazon, I asked them and this was their reply:
Customer Support answered:
"No, this travel converter is not designed for continuous use."

Reminds me of the guy near me who runs a small theme park with corny rides. he bought the ferris wheel that elvis rode in a famous movie and imported it into australia. http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMBYN7_Elvis_Ferris_Wheel_from_Roustabout
he then had to spend what he described as four times as much as he paid for it (all up including its importation) converting it to run on 240v and 50 cps

We have a saying here ... Food will have a better taste when you are hungry...
So when things go harder and you find a solution, you will enjoy and learn more than if everything goes easy ....
In my case, this is not the first time I do things the hard way ....
It's some kind of a hobby ...

-------------------

So, after all, let me update you with the latest news: (Please check attachments):
I bought a step-down transformer (image: IMG_20170528_162123.jpg), the device worked like expected (check the other two images).

I will keep trying this device (now it is working for an hour), maybe at evening I will check if it gets warmer.

------------------
I want you to check this:
https://www.amazon.com/150W-NMS-IF-VC-International-Frequency/dp/B01BCKDZ3U
and this:
https://www.amazon.com/IF-VC-International-Voltage-Frequency-Converter/dp/B00699IKWQ
----------------------

The second step, I will buy a car charger and an inverter from 12v to 110 @ 60 Hz ..
I want to see the performance difference, even thought it may not be that much, but let us see ....


Thank you ...

 

I really wish it was easy, I wish more than you ...
I mean if here in the middle east they make such effective devices with the newest technologies, I would, of course, buy it from the local market!!

The cure is simple, yes, but maybe with some other ideas.

Regarding the frequency converter from amazon, I asked them and this was their reply:
Customer Support answered:
"No, this travel converter is not designed for continuous use."



We have a saying here ... Food will have a better taste when you are hungry...
So when things go harder and you find a solution, you will enjoy and learn more than if everything goes easy ....
In my case, this is not the first time I do things the hard way ....
It's some kind of a hobby ...

-------------------

So, after all, let me update you with the latest news: (Please check attachments):
I bought a step-down transformer (image: IMG_20170528_162123.jpg), the device worked like expected (check the other two images).

I will keep trying this device (now it is working for an hour), maybe at evening I will check if it gets warmer.

------------------
I want you to check this:
https://www.amazon.com/150W-NMS-IF-VC-International-Frequency/dp/B01BCKDZ3U
and this:
https://www.amazon.com/IF-VC-International-Voltage-Frequency-Converter/dp/B00699IKWQ
----------------------

The second step, I will buy a car charger and an inverter from 12v to 110 @ 60 Hz ..
I want to see the performance difference, even thought it may not be that much, but let us see ....


Thank you ...

Congratulations! You have the right instincts for approaching a proper solution for your application. I will be interested in the results.

 

Congratulations! You have the right instincts for approaching a proper solution for your application. I will be interested in the results.

Thank you very much !!

Surely I will update you and everybody with the latest ....

Thanks ...

 

Okay... Let me write the final update for anybody who may face the same situation in future...

After I received the inverter from USA... That was few days ago....
I replaced the step down transformer I bought earlier to an (adapter / charger)...
I tested the adapter > inverter combination in the shop on a 120v 60 hz lamp... And it worked well...
I came home.. And I connected the adapter terminals to the inverter input... And started the experiment...

Unfortunately, at 12 V from the adapter, connecting the inverter to the air purifier...

It worked for less than a second but when the motor tried to start, the inverter stopped and the red light failure led was on...

On 9 Volts (from adapter) ... Same fault error... 6 Volts works but inverter restarts and the air purifier goes off...

Maybe it needed a greater amps supply adapter for the start at least...
The inverter was 300 watts continuous with 700 watts peak power...

The air purifier is 56 watts at most.. With 0.5 amps...

I wanted to try more options for the experiment but I did not have much time before I had to send the air purifier to another country...

Finally I went back to the same shop and I replaced the adapter again with the step down transformer...

That's it..
Thought to share the information and thanks for everybody for his valuable opinion and feedback....