ok thanks.

can you contain and regulate the total draw and final output of the (2) sources combined?
by "Contain" i mean limit... if one source ie the generator starts to increase power, can it draw less from constant to keep the overall total current flowing thru the same?

Yes and no.
Power output is not determined at the source. It is the load that determines how much power is drawn from the source.

You mean, can you adjust the power mix so that one source provides a certain percentage of the power? The answer is yes.

 

say a "tool" something rotary like a tool bench grinder, if you were to hook up a "generator" to it to use the grinder to turn the generator, which it's already doing, then run that generator output back into the grinder so the grinder itself drew less direct power. Does that make sense?

What you seem to be describing in that paragraph is known as, *over unity*. Not only is it not possible it's a restricted topic on this forum.

 

Ah so!
@shortbus is correct. There is no free lunch. The power source has to provide all the energy to turn the bench grinder and the generator.
In other words, the generator itself is additional load on the power source. The power consumed goes up, not down. It’s simple physics.

You proposed a hypothetical scenario. Here are some hypothetical numbers as to what might happen.

Suppose the bench grinder draws 350W.
Add the generator and it draws 200W as an example. Now the total power demand is 550W
Suppose the generator delivers 100W. This puts an additional load on the power source, let’s say 200W. Now the total power demand has risen to 750W. You gain 100W of generated power which brings down the power demand to 650W.

In summary, you went from a 350W load to 650W when the generator is added.

 

can you contain and regulate the total draw and final output of the (2) sources combined?
by "Contain" i mean limit... if one source ie the generator starts to increase power, can it draw less from constant to keep the overall total current flowing thru the same?

In these times, available technologies means the answer to ANY question is 'Yes', within the bounds of physics. Sychronised AC sources, supply regulated demand, automatic islanded isolation, you name it and it can be done. The question usually resolves to 'can it be done economically?'

 

Exactly. The yes answers should have been yes, but…. yes, it is possible, but not without a lot of effort.

 

What you seem to be describing in that paragraph is known as, *over unity*. Not only is it not possible it's a restricted topic on this forum.

Not sure what "over unity" is (will look it up), but why would any topic be restricted on a forum?

 

Ah so!
@shortbus is correct. There is no free lunch. The power source has to provide all the energy to turn the bench grinder and the generator.
In other words, the generator itself is additional load on the power source. The power consumed goes up, not down. It’s simple physics.

You proposed a hypothetical scenario. Here are some hypothetical numbers as to what might happen.

Suppose the bench grinder draws 350W.
Add the generator and it draws 200W as an example. Now the total power demand is 550W
Suppose the generator delivers 100W. This puts an additional load on the power source, let’s say 200W. Now the total power demand has risen to 750W. You gain 100W of generated power which brings down the power demand to 650W.

In summary, you went from a 350W load to 650W when the generator is added.

Somehow I think you misunderstood. How / why does the generator draw power? it produces power. you use the turning shaft of the bench grinder, to also spin the generator to produce power, now run that power thru what we will refer to, (and what I am actually trying to figure out) as regulator. the regulator acts as a type of "gatekeeper" to combine the two power sources and ultimately feed the grinder from both, so once the generator starts producing power, the regulator reduces the draw from the direct power sources and use the power being produced by the generator.

 

In these times, available technologies means the answer to ANY question is 'Yes', within the bounds of physics. Sychronised AC sources, supply regulated demand, automatic islanded isolation, you name it and it can be done. The question usually resolves to 'can it be done economically?'

Thanks, this really is kind of more what I expected. In a sense (almost) anything is possible, but is it economically feasible. Does the cost outweigh the benefit.
That is where the needing to know what would be needed and the sequence and structure to do it. And the overall size of the final construct.
Thanks

 

Over unity means getting more power out than is put in, which is what you are trying to do.

A generator does not create power out of nothing. If you use the grinder to turn the generator, one of two things can happen, the grinder slows down or it draws more power in and keeps the same speed. In all likelihood, it will be a combination of the two.

Think of running your car when up on blocks, with the wheels turning freely. Do you think the gas mileage(based on wheel rotation) would be the same as if the car was being moved by the wheels?

 

Thanks, this really is kind of more what I expected. In a sense (almost) anything is possible, but is it economically feasible. Does the cost outweigh the benefit.
That is where the needing to know what would be needed and the sequence and structure to do it. And the overall size of the final construct.
Thanks

what you originally asked for is possible, but it will not reduce the power used. This is basic physics.

 

Another example of over-unity is using a solar panel to power a lamp which shines on the solar panel to produce power.

It does not work. Simple physics.

 

what you originally asked for is possible, but it will not reduce the power used. This is basic physics.

Thanks ultimately all i needed to know is it's possible. the grinder was just an example that I could think of to give an idea of the process and using something thats already happening and using the resulting actions to generate more power. I get in this case the generator may put more drag on the spinning shaft, resulting in more power being used to initially run the grinder to speed.
this is not the practical application of why I was asking.

 

Another example of over-unity is using a solar panel to power a lamp which shines on the solar panel to produce power.

It does not work. Simple physics.

Thank you for the examples of "over unity". much appreciated.

 

Good. The reason over-unity is banned is b cause, unlike you, most people who want to talk about it do not listen to reason and often become abusive.

 

Good. The reason over-unity is banned is b cause, unlike you, most people who want to talk about it do not listen to reason and often become abusive.

Well thanks, I try to at least take into consideration, I am asking because I do not know, and I hope those replying know more than me, and if I think theres a misunderstanding I need to try to explain better or get a more clear understanding of the reply. And yes I get the concept of the light not being able to produce enough power to infinitely power itself.

 

IF I could just push the "grinder idea" a bit...
just using round numbers and I am not using info from a particular grinder / appliance or generator device...
if used a grinder that took 100w and the grinder had an rpm of 1200, and at 1200 rpm the generator was able to produce 80w.
however it took 20% more power to keep the 1200rpms w the grinder attached, now you are consuming 120w.
now feed the 80w produced back into the grinder thru the regulator / gatekeeper device.
the 80w would cut the overall direct initial consumption down to 40w resulting in overall a 60% less usage.
hypothetically speaking wouldn't this be correct and possible?
regardless of the fact that if it cost $100 to produce such a device, just to essentially save a few cents everytime you used the grinder, it wouldn't make it economically feasible.

 

IF I could just push the "grinder idea" a bit...
just using round numbers and I am not using info from a particular grinder / appliance or generator device...
if used a grinder that took 100w and the grinder had an rpm of 1200, and at 1200 rpm the generator was able to produce 80w.
however it took 20% more power to keep the 1200rpms w the grinder attached, now you are consuming 120w.
now feed the 80w produced back into the grinder thru the regulator / gatekeeper device.
the 80w would cut the overall direct initial consumption down to 40w resulting in overall a 60% less usage.
hypothetically speaking wouldn't this be correct and possible?
regardless of the fact that if it cost $100 to produce such a device, just to essentially save a few cents everytime you used the grinder, it wouldn't make i

No. Again, this is over unity.
To spin the grinder takes a certain amount of energy.
To spin the grinder plus the generator takes more energy.
You cannot end up with less energy to spin both.
Simple physics.

 

No. Again, this is over unity.
To spin the grinder takes a certain amount of energy.
To spin the grinder plus the generator takes more energy.
You cannot end up with less energy to spin both.
Simple physics.

you have repeated "simple physics" multiple times now, which whether you mean it or not comes off very condescending, which may be the reason people become abusive. Inferred belittling of someone asking a question, especially a hypothetical one is arrogance on your part.

however in the example I gave you are creating an overabundance of energy (+80w) and creating a loop with additional supplementation.
so you are not ending up with less energy.

 

however it took 20% more power to keep the 1200rpms w the grinder attached, now you are consuming 120w.

This is where you are going wrong.

If the generator is outputting 80W it will take more than 80W of adfitional power to keep the grinder and generator running at 1200 RPM.

 

you have repeated "simple physics" multiple times now, which whether you mean it or not comes off very condescending, which may be the reason people become abusive. Inferred belittling of someone asking a question, especially a hypothetical one is arrogance on your part.

however in the example I gave you are creating an overabundance of energy (+80w) and creating a loop with additional supplementation.
so you are not ending up with less energy.

Okay, I take back my congratulations. You are not different than other promoters of free energy. I suspect you knew exactly what would happen here.