In your drawing for the suggested position for the down microswitch apart from the fact you have a link shorting it out it will not work as there will still be current flowing through the C1 to D1 winding on the motor via the capacitor. You would need to keep the blue wire (B2) connected to the capacitor (Black wire C2.) and insert the microswitch between that point and the top right hand connection on the rocker switch. If you are retaining the existing remote handset you would need an extra core on the cable or move the capacitor to near the motor. Is it your intention to retain the existing remote or will it be reptaced with two wireless remotes ? I have two of the 4 channel wireless remotes the same is the ones that Ron suggested. They work very well. I don't know anything about the other units that are powered from 110 volts AC (Rather than 12 volts DC.) From the advert for them they should work. Although the ratings on the relays in these remotes should be enough for the motor current I would not trust them. I would use them to drive two larger relays / contactors. When you say exactly the way you want it to work I will suggest a schematic. I had another thought as an alternative to a gearbox and cam to operate the down microswitch. It would use a length of threaded rod driven from the winch drum shaft. A nut on the shaft could operate the microswitch as it moved along the rod. (About how many revolutions will the drum make for the full travel from the lowest position to the highest position ?)

Les.

Les.

 

It would use a length of threaded rod driven from the winch drum shaft. A nut on the shaft could operate the microswitch as it moved along the rod.

That would be my choice.
Another option would be to use a twisted pair of strings instead of the threaded rod. The more twists, the shorter the pair gets.
I don't see the need for a wireless remote, since to carry out loading and unloading of the platform safely someone would have to be next to it and could easily operate a hard-wired switch.

 

A threaded rod, run off the main drive shaft, with a nut sounds like good idea. Much like an engine timing chain off the crankshaft driving the camshaft. I can rig or fabricate something like that since I have a welder, a lathe, and a mill. The mechanical fabrication part of the project is easy for me to come up with. The electrical portion is where I’m challenged.

As for how many revolutions the cable drum will go through to reach the bottom of travel, I don’t know yet. I’m still coming up with the exact dimensions of the receiving frame, in the attic where the platform will be pulled up into. The receiving frame dimensions will determine how tall the platform will be and what cable length will be needed.

Having a wireless remote would be a good convenience to have. Alec_t is correct about the loading and unloading procedure. But I would like the convenience of not having to climb up to the attic to operate the remote to lower the platform for the first load. Can I make an opening in the ceiling for the remote hang down in the garage, yes. But I like the cleaner solution of having a wireless remote to lower the platform. I would be fine eliminating the wired remote all together. But I don’t know enough about circuity to determine if that’s possible, or if eliminating it adds much more complexity to the system. The company that makes these types of attic storage systems offers wireless and in wall wired remotes. I thought about cutting the wired remote cable, splicing in longer wire, and running that through the wall to the garage below. But I didn’t want the hassle of running wire through a wall. A wireless remote would be a much cleaner solution. But if coming up with a wireless remote activation proves to be too complex, I guess I could live with it the way it is. But I’d like to take a stab at making the wireless system work.

 

Having a wireless remote would be a good convenience to have. .

4 Channel wireless remote RX/TX $14.00 on ebay 232959915563
Max.

 

Here is a suggested schematic of how to wire it up using one of the wireless remote switches.




This is an example of the sort of relay that I suggest using. (What you choose depends on what is available in your country.) The contacts are wired to interlock so that both up and down motor connections can't be powered at the same time. NOTE although these relays in the picture have enough pins to be DPDT the bases do not have enough connections.

Les.

 

I had another thought as an alternative to a gearbox and cam to operate the down microswitch. It would use a length of threaded rod driven from the winch drum shaft. A nut on the shaft could operate the microswitch as it moved along the rod.

Another up vote for this idea - good thinking!

 

Thanks for the schematic Les. Can you recommend a place where I can find a micro switch for the down circuit that would be similar to the one that is already on the up circuit? I found a place called Digi-Key. I typed "Micro Switch" in the filter but it came up with over 2,400 choices. I tried narrowing the search with the requirements I know about, AC current NO,but there was still a lot of choices.

By the way, I live in Los Angeles.

 

There is 837 pages of limit switches on Digikey!!.
For a similar one to the one in post #7 there is quite a few depending on what type of actuator the L.S. has.
Manuf: Microswitch, Omron etc.
https://www.digikey.ca/products/en/switches/snap-action-limit-switches/198/page/3?k=microswitch
Max.

 

Les, I found these on ebay in the US. The spec's look like what you suggested from ebay in the UK. The only thing I see different is the terminals on the blocks. These look like they have a total of eight. I can't tell from the information given if the contacts are wired to interlock like the one's you suggested.

Relay

 

Thanks Max, I'll have a look and see if I can find one that will work for me.

-Robert

 

Hi Robert,
Those relays look suitable. (I think it may have been the angle at which the picture was taken in the Ebay advert that I posted that made the bases look as though they only had 6 screw terminals.) The 8 connections are as follows 2 for the coil and 3 for each of the two sets of changeover contacts. The interlocking is not a characteristic of the relay it is the way the contacts are wired. The existing micro switch in the hoist looks like a "V3" type micro switch. One point to watch for when you start to rewire the hoist its that the capacitor may be in a charged state so I suggest discharging it before you touch the connections.

Les.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the capacitor discharge. I looked up the proper way to do it and it seems that touching the two leads is worst way to discharge one. I saw several simple discharge probes people made. I figured I can make one myself.

Quick question, if the if the markings on the capacitor says 60 microfarads (see post #7) and connected to regular 110V US house current. What size or type resistor would be antiquate for a discharge probe? Or would something as hooking up a 12VDC light bulb be a proper way to do it?

 

You could use a normal filiment type mains voltage light bulb to discharge the capacitor. Last week I had a look inside my hoist to see if it was wired the same way as the one you have. I noticed that the insulation on the 4 core cable to the hand unit was perished and flaking off so I ordered some 4 core cable on Ebay. It arrived yesterday and when I was replacing it I got a shock from the capacitor. (I just shorted it with a piece of wire which is not good practice.)

Les.

 

Hi guys,
The relays I ordered, from ebay, came in yesterday. I’ve got a few questions about wiring them and a conceptional question about wiring in a wireless remote. I’m learning this as I go please excuse the basic questions.
Relay schematic

Are terminals 7 & 8 used to power the control circuit?
Terminals

Based on the photo of the electromagnet, does this relay only accept 110v to energize the control circuit?
Relay

As I mentioned in my previous posts, the motor has a wired remote. Ideally, I’d like to set up wireless remote control of the motor. So I’m wondering I also purchased this wireless remote system. My question is, if I go this route will using the relay above even be needed since it looks like it has it’s own relays.
Wireless Relay

Finally, here is my concept of a mechanism to detect when the dumb waiter reaches the end of it's up and down travel. Thanks for the idea Les.
Limiter

 

Relay appears too be AC 120v version, includes a bridge for the LED indicator. Term 7 & 8..
Max.

 

Max, do you think going with the wireless remote setup on Amazon, eliminate the need to go with the relay I got on ebay?

 

The numbers on the diagram of the relay are the same as the numbers on the screw connections on the sockets.
In the picture of the relay in post #34 it does not show the coil rating, only the contact rating.
As I said in post #21 the rating of the relays in the wireless remote is high enough to drive the motor directly but I would not trust such small relays as being suitable for the motor current.
You travel limiter looks to be what I described. You only need the down limit micro switch as you can still use the existing limit micro switch for the up limit.
While looking back at the diagram in post #25 to see if I had drawn it for relays 12 volt DC or 120 V AC relays I noticed an error. Pin 2 on the relays in that diagram should connect to neutral not live as I drawn it. That schematic is for relays with 120 volt AC coil. (Pins 1 and 2 in that diagram will be pins 7 and 8 on your relays. It does not matter which way round they are.)
If you want to use the relays to drive the motor directly I wil draw you a revised schematic.

Max, Would you trust the relays on the wireless remote to drive the motor directly ?

Les.

 

Just thinking out loud. If the relay’s on the wireless remote might not be up to the task, would using two sets of relays be a possible solution? Here’s my thinking, I use the relays on the wireless remote to give me wireless control. The wireless remote’s relays then activate the eBay relays to turn on the winch motor. Les, If something like that is sound wiring practice, then yes I would appreciate a schematic reflecting that type of connection.

I’ll follow whatever recommendations you guys think are best.

 

In the picture of the relay in post #34 it does not show the coil rating, only the contact rating.

Max, Would you trust the relays on the wireless remote to drive the motor directly ?

Les.

Usually the coil details is on the coil itself and these show 120vac.
I think they should be suitable to switch the motor.
Max.

 

Re post #38. The schematic in post #25 shows that exact setup. (NOTE the error in the schematic that is mentioned in posr #27.) The relays K3 & K4 are the relays in the wirless controller. labled "channel 1 relay in wireless receiver" and "channel 3 relay in wireless receiver" The contacts on these relays switch the power (120 V AC ) to the coils on the relays K1 and K2 (Labled "up relay" &" down relay" on the schematic. I have also noticed that I have drawn a connection to P2 on K1 that is not required.

Les.