Why was my thread moved?

Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
So my question about unexpected ltspice simulator results was moved from _General Electronics Chat_ to _Programmer's Corner_ (Right Here) which I don't understand cuz Spice is abt circuit design not programming:confused:?

Anyhow I'm not complaining or angry or like that it's just that I need to understand rhyme or reason of appropriate place for posts:confused:? Tnx:)!
 

OBW0549

Joined Mar 2, 2015
3,566
Wow. Just... WOW! :rolleyes:

LTSpice (like all other Spice variants) is a CAD program used by electronic circuit designers to simulate the behavior of circuits. It is NOT used by programmers in the process of writing, testing or debugging programs.

LTSpice is a hardware design tool, not a software design tool.

Please move that thread back where it came from. It absolutely, positively DOES NOT belong in Programmer's Corner.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
I agree, Programmer's Corner seems a poor fit for what is mostly an analog simulation tool and the nature of your question. Would a question about defining a new device in Eagle also be included in Programmer's Corner? If not, then why should the definition of a device in LTSpice be considered programming?

The problem may be that general chat includes an "all of the above" statement,
Discussion forum for general chat about anything electronics related.
What doesn't fit that description and is related to electronics?

That is a little like the multiple choice question that includes "D: None of the above" and " E: All of the above" as distractors. It's hard to argue that E is not always the correct answer. Some test writers try to get around that paradox by adding, "Which one of the following is the best answer," but that doesn't really solve the problem. It is better just to rewrite the question.

Maybe the description for what is to be included in general chat needs to be reconsidered? PS: I don't think adding "not included in other categories" is the best answer. ;)

John
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
15,490
Wow. Just... WOW! :rolleyes:

LTSpice (like all other Spice variants) is a CAD program used by electronic circuit designers to simulate the behavior of circuits. It is NOT used by programmers in the process of writing, testing or debugging programs.

LTSpice is a hardware design tool, not a software design tool.

Please move that thread back where it came from. It absolutely, positively DOES NOT belong in Programmer's Corner.
I think that view might be a bit too narrow. It is a textual description of a circuit. This circuit is rendered by a text to graphics compiler. The models and sub-circuits are also described by text files that are compiled by the simulation engine. Is the ultimate purpose of the program what distinguishes programming from non-programming? I think not. The original SPICE program's input and output looked more like programming and less like circuit design than you might suspect.
 

OBW0549

Joined Mar 2, 2015
3,566
Some further thoughts on what I wrote in #2 above:

The subheading for the Programmer's Corner forum reads as follows: "Forum for software engineering and programming languages: C, C++, C#, Fortran, Java, Matlab, etc."

So I ask myself, is LTSpice (or any other variant of Spice) used in software engineering? Obviously, no.

Does LTSpice belong as a member of a list of programming languages akin to C, C++, C#, Fortran, Java, or Matlab? Again, obviously, no.

LTSpice is a circuit design tool, not a programming language or software development tool.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
15,490
Some further thoughts on what I wrote in #2 above:

The subheading for the Programmer's Corner forum reads as follows: "Forum for software engineering and programming languages: C, C++, C#, Fortran, Java, Matlab, etc."

So I ask myself, is LTSpice (or any other variant of Spice) used in software engineering? Obviously, no.

Does LTSpice belong as a member of a list of programming languages akin to C, C++, C#, Fortran, Java, or Matlab? Again, obviously, no.

LTSpice is a circuit design tool, not a programming language or software development tool.
The number and type of programming languages is constantly changing, and to suggest that the abbreviated list of example languages given in the quote is exhaustive is intellectual jiggery-pokery. From a career spanning half a century in programming, software engineering, and circuit design I can tell you that you need a better argument to persuade me that SPICE is NOT a programming language. I actually think the "etc." covers my point adequately.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
The number and type of programming languages is constantly changing, and to suggest that the abbreviated list of example languages given in the quote is exhaustive is intellectual jiggery-pokery. From a career spanning half a century in programming, software engineering, and circuit design I can tell you that you need a better argument to persuade me that SPICE is NOT a programming language. I actually think the "etc." covers my point adequately.
That argument would put EAGLE discussions there too, as well as almost any CAD program that can be driven from a command line. For example, here is a portion of the text file for a library device:

width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="17.78" y1="0.635" x2="17.78" y2="-0.635" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="17.78" y1="-0.635" x2="17.145" y2="-1.27" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="17.145" y1="-1.27" x2="15.875" y2="-1.27" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="15.875" y1="-1.27" x2="15.24" y2="-0.635" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="10.16" y1="0.635" x2="10.795" y2="1.27" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="12.065" y1="1.27" x2="12.7" y2="0.635" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="12.7" y1="0.635" x2="12.7" y2="-0.635"


John
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
15,490
That argument would put EAGLE discussions there too, as well as almost any CAD program that can be driven from a command line. For example, here is a portion of the text file for a library device:

width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="17.78" y1="0.635" x2="17.78" y2="-0.635" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="17.78" y1="-0.635" x2="17.145" y2="-1.27" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="17.145" y1="-1.27" x2="15.875" y2="-1.27" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="15.875" y1="-1.27" x2="15.24" y2="-0.635" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="10.16" y1="0.635" x2="10.795" y2="1.27" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="12.065" y1="1.27" x2="12.7" y2="0.635" width="0.1524" layer="21"/>
<wire x1="12.7" y1="0.635" x2="12.7" y2="-0.635"


John
I would have absolutely no quarrel with that assertion. What constitutes software engineering is incredibly broad, and includes many languages and application areas. People who use languages to solve application problems are just as much software engineers as the guys who write the programs, compilers, and operating systems. Notice that Matlab is included in the list of "favored" languages for the Programmer's Corner, but it is hardly a language you would use to write an operating system.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
26,747
My 1½ cents.
Spice is definitely not a programming language, any more than Excel is.
Of course software is what does the simulation, but that's as far as it goes.
Questions on Spice certainly belong in the circuit design or CAD area and not the programming area.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
15,490
My 1½ cents.
Spice is definitely not a programming language, any more than Excel is.
...
That is quite simply an ignorant statement. SPICE has all the required elements in the formal definition of a programming language. It may also be a CAD system or many other things, but applying the duck test, it is also a programming language. It has syntax, it has semantics, and it implements a behavior.
 

Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
I think that view might be a bit too narrow. It is a textual description of a circuit. This circuit is rendered by a text to graphics compiler. The models and sub-circuits are also described by text files that are compiled by the simulation engine. Is the ultimate purpose of the program what distinguishes programming from non-programming? I think not. The original SPICE program's input and output looked more like programming and less like circuit design than you might suspect.
Papabravo tnx for feedback but I say sort order can be conscientiously rationalized any way around so the test has to be where ppl expect to find the subjects and I just can't see Spice questions expected in Programming forum:confused:? Anyway I know it can be hard call:cool:!

Hello,

I see that ScottWang moved it to the programmers corner.
I moved it back to the general chat.

Bertus
Thanks Bertus! And thanks to everybody on thread for intelligent discussion of my concern:)!
 

Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
Some further thoughts on what I wrote in #2 above:

The subheading for the Programmer's Corner forum reads as follows: "Forum for software engineering and programming languages: C, C++, C#, Fortran, Java, Matlab, etc."

So I ask myself, is LTSpice (or any other variant of Spice) used in software engineering? Obviously, no.

Does LTSpice belong as a member of a list of programming languages akin to C, C++, C#, Fortran, Java, or Matlab? Again, obviously, no.

LTSpice is a circuit design tool, not a programming language or software development tool.
OBW0549, FWIW I say Spice is in category like Mathematica cuz even if it can be technically described as programming language it is only practical for narrow application which IMO makes it come more properly under sort order of _electronics design tool_ Just like Mathematica should be classed as _mathematics computation tool_ So I'm saying I totally agree with you:)!
 
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