Where's the neutral!?

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Mad_hatter, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. Mad_hatter

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 26, 2017
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    Hello inventors, engineers, technicians, and electricians. I need your help! I have an outlet with two hot wires each 110volts 25 amp however I only need one of the sockets of the outlet (110volt). So how do I create a netrual to complete the circuit??
     
  2. SLK001

    Senior Member

    Nov 29, 2011
    1,354
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    What you have is dangerous. Call a licensed electrician to fix your outlet.

    P.S. How did you measure each of the hot wires?
     
  3. dl324

    AAC Fanatic!

    Mar 30, 2015
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    Is this a 220 outlet you're trying to tap to get 110?

    Pull a neutral wire from the power panel.
     
  4. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    You should also have the required outlet, the 240v is different configuration to the standard 120v 15a.
    Max.
     
  5. dl324

    AAC Fanatic!

    Mar 30, 2015
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    Didn't consider that aspect. OP does need to have an appropriate breaker because 25A 110 volt outlets aren't typical in homes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  6. Mad_hatter

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 26, 2017
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    Meter
     
  7. Mad_hatter

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 26, 2017
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    Sorry fellas let me clarify the outlet is a stove top burner producing the NOT a wall outlet I'm working on an invention so please help me think out side the box and have some fun. Basically I need to turn the top of my stove burner into a wall outlet. Thanks!
     
  8. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    If you want to feed a dual 15a 120v auxiliary outlet from this unit, as mentioned you will need the neutral of course and preferably two local fuses.
    Max.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mad_hatter

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 26, 2017
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    Is there a way to turn one of the hot wires into a netrual ??
     
  10. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    So you only want 120v ?
    If so you can connect one of the 230v conductors to the neutral in the panel, and mark it at all termination points with white electrical tape.
    And replace the breaker with a 15amp one if a regular 120v outlet socket is used.
    Max.
     
    JohnInTX likes this.
  11. JohnInTX

    Moderator

    Jun 26, 2012
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    What Max said.. and don't bypass the white tape. Other electricians depend on markings like that. (Just got done 'exploring' some old wiring. Yikes!)
     
  12. DNA Robotics

    Active Member

    Jun 13, 2014
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    I am assuming that you know what you are doing. If not, don't attempt any of this.
    If your 230 volt stove has a 4 conductor plug / cord then you have 115 volts from either hot leg to the white neutral wire.
    If the oven light is 115 volts, tap into that circuit.

    Edited to say: Your use of the term "centre tap" in your next post tells me that you are not in the United States so this post was not relevant to you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  13. Mad_hatter

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 26, 2017
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    I could run a wire or tap into a neutral line or....is it possible to use a transformer with the two hot wires on the primary side and centre tap the secondary side to create 115 volt and have a hot and neutral?...
     
  14. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    You can use a 240v/120v control transformer, this has a single secondary, NEC allow the option of one side taken to the earth ground conductor and from there you have both a neutral and ground, only the neutral is used as a conductor.
    This re-references a galvanically isolated supply to earth GND.
    Max.
     
  15. DNA Robotics

    Active Member

    Jun 13, 2014
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    Ground and neutral - Wikipedia
    Ground and neutral

    Definitions

    Ground or earth in a mains (AC power) electrical wiring system is a conductor that provides a low-impedance path to the earth to prevent hazardous voltages from appearing on equipment (high voltage spikes). (The terms "ground" and "earth" are used synonymously here. "Ground" is more common in North American English, and "earth" is more common in British English.) Under normal conditions, a grounding conductor does not carry current. Grounding is an integral path for home wiring also because it causes circuit breakers to trip more quickly (ie, GFI), which is safer. Adding new grounds requires a qualified electrician with information particular to a power company distribution region.

    Neutral is a circuit conductor that normally carries current back to the source. Neutral is usually connected to ground (earth) at the main electrical panel, street drop, or meter, and also at the final step-down transformer of the supply. That is for simple single panel installations, for multiple panels the situation is more complex.

    In the electrical trade, the conductor of a 2-wire circuit connected to the supply neutral point and earth ground is referred to as the "neutral". [1]

    In a polyphase (usually three-phase) AC system, the neutral conductor is intended to have similar voltages to each of the other circuit conductors, but may carry very little current if the phases are balanced.

    The United States' National Electrical Code and Canadian electrical code only define neutral as the grounded, not the polyphase common connection. In North American use, the polyphase definition is used in less formal language but not in official specifications. In the United Kingdom the Institution of Engineering and Technology defines a neutral conductor as one connected to the supply system neutral point, which includes both these uses.

    As per Indian CEAR "neutral conductor" means that conductor of a multi-wire system, the voltage of which is normally intermediate between the voltages of the other conductors of the system and shall also include return wire of the single phase system.

    All neutral wires of the same earthed (grounded) electrical system should have the same electrical potential, because they are all connected through the system ground. Neutral conductors are usually insulated for the same voltage as the line conductors, with interesting exceptions.[2]

    Circuitry

    Neutral wires are usually connected at a neutral bus within panelboards or switchboards, and are "bonded" to earth ground at either the electrical service entrance, or at transformers within the system. For electrical installations with split-phase (three-wire single-phase service), the neutral point of the system is at the center-tap on the secondary side of the service transformer. For larger electrical installations, such as those with polyphase service, the neutral point is usually at the common connection on the secondary side of delta/wye connected transformers. Other arrangements of polyphase transformers may result in no neutral point, and no neutral conductors.
     
  16. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    Which basically confirms the re-referencing in post #14.
    Max.
     
  17. DNA Robotics

    Active Member

    Jun 13, 2014
    470
    174
    Yes

    International Voltage Converter 220V to 110V 1600 Watt. Use US appliances overseas Price: $8.81
    https://www.amazon.com/International-Voltage-Converter-appliances-overseas/dp/B000WQ0MTG


    HYTED 2000Watts Travel Adapter and Converter - International Travel Power Converter 220v to 110v for Hair Dryer Laptop Cell Phone All in One Universal Plug Adapter US AU UK Europe Over 150 Countries
    Price $37.95

    https://www.amazon.com/HYTED-2000Wa...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SVJNB9WJSHD1QXHMFZR3

    Just buy one of these.
     
  18. Mad_hatter

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 26, 2017
    9
    0
    Thanks DNA but those travel adapters will blow up in a north american stove top burner 1600watts/240volts= 7.3amps. This puppy is pumping 50amps and plus the original problem of no netrual line. But keep up the research and ideas thanks again!!
     
  19. Mad_hatter

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 26, 2017
    9
    0
    Max I like the idea of the control transformer, How mach heat does this create?
     
  20. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    18,375
    5,646
    Dependent on the load the transformer is subjected to.
    They are rated in (k)va.
    What is your intended load?
    Is it a stove 240v burner?
    If it is a resistive load, you could put a Triac circuit off of the 240v?
    Max.
     
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